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People from Western countries identifying as Asian, African, Cuban, Kazakh...

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  • People from Western countries identifying as Asian, African, Cuban, Kazakh...

    I wonder why are there some people, who were born in a country, who were raise in the same country but, because they have some roots in another country, deny their country and claim proudly they are from another nationality.

    If I am not clear, let's say X was born and raised in Canada, but because X has some parents, grandparents or ancestors in Africa, X says "I'm African!".

    Isn't here something wrong? I mean, those people don't even know the country they claim to be a part of, they don't know the culture, neither they know the language for most of them... What is the point in saying they are from this country?

    I have noticed that the phenomenon is more important in western countries (especially anglosaxon ones but it's also strong in Germany or France) than in the other ones, and some ethnies seems to be more into this than others. My question is : Why? Most of time, when someone immigrated in a country, they abandonned a part of their cultures, even in North America and gave only few of it to their descents, now, those people could barely speak the language of their ancestors, yet claim they are X or Y, sometime use a percent like "Im 1/4 German!".

    Another question it raises in my mind is : Are those people fantasming the land of their ancestors? I mean in France we often see black people saying they are African and talking about panafricanism with a similar culture where everything would be fine... Does it comes from the fact they were born and raised in a western country or is there something else to push them to believe in a Wakanda stuff or something similar about the native place of their ancestors?

  • #2
    Just ultimate proof that multiculturalism stinks and doesn't work

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
      I wonder why are there some people, who were born in a country, who were raise in the same country but, because they have some roots in another country, deny their country and claim proudly they are from another nationality...
      People have always sought to belong to a group and at the same time, be individuals. So calling yourself an "Italian American" while having always lived in Chicago, or identifying as "Algerian" when you carry a French passport and have never been to Algeria, satisfies both the desire to be part of a group and express your individuality. Here in North America, there are several companies that offer to test your DNA so you can know where your ancestors came from. Why is this important? ...it isn't important at all but people want to know and are willing to pay US$100 to find out.

      I agree with Polish Abdul: this is multiculturalism at work.



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      • #4
        Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

        People have always sought to belong to a group and at the same time, be individuals. So calling yourself an "Italian American" while having always lived in Chicago, or identifying as "Algerian" when you carry a French passport and have never been to Algeria, satisfies both the desire to be part of a group and express your individuality. Here in North America, there are several companies that offer to test your DNA so you can know where your ancestors came from. Why is this important? ...it isn't important at all but people want to know and are willing to pay US$100 to find out.

        I agree with Polish Abdul: this is multiculturalism at work.


        Doesn't this show a lack of identity/culture or pride to be a citizen of the country could give to someone? Like someone finding some roots and some pride to get from a nationality or something?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
          Doesn't this show a lack of identity/culture or pride to be a citizen of the country could give to someone? Like someone finding some roots and some pride to get from a nationality or something?
          I know Americans who are proud of having German ancestry. Thats indeed odd but guess is a kind of romanticism of their ancestors nation and at the same time criticism of their own current nation. All Western nations have a healthy self-criticism (even Americans :-P), so they eventually fill up the gap this criticism suggests with characteristics of their ancestors nation?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post

            Doesn't this show a lack of identity/culture or pride to be a citizen of the country could give to someone? Like someone finding some roots and some pride to get from a nationality or something?
            Yes, it does show a lack of all that: identity, culture and patriotism. There is an excellent TV advertisement here that illustrates your point: A father has raised his family thinking he was Scottish-Canadian, so the children ate Scottish food, the boys wore kilts and the girls learn to play bagpipes. Then the father gets the results of his DNA test and finds out he's actually of Italian ancestry. That evening, he serves his children lasagna for dinner, gestures with his hands and speaks with an italian accent...


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Suna123 View Post

              I know Americans who are proud of having German ancestry. Thats indeed odd but guess is a kind of romanticism of their ancestors nation and at the same time criticism of their own current nation. All Western nations have a healthy self-criticism (even Americans :-P), so they eventually fill up the gap this criticism suggests with characteristics of their ancestors nation?
              Would you call that criticism if it comes to fantasming you ancestor's country? The grass is always greener on the other side, but in case of the Black people fantasming a Wakanda in Africa... I personally don't see how they fill up the gap with characteristics of their ancestors nation.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

                Yes, it does show a lack of all that: identity, culture and patriotism. There is an excellent TV advertisement here that illustrates your point: A father has raised his family thinking he was Scottish-Canadian, so the children ate Scottish food, the boys wore kilts and the girls learn to play bagpipes. Then the father gets the results of his DNA test and finds out he's actually of Italian ancestry. That evening, he serves his children lasagna for dinner, gestures with his hands and speaks with an italian accent...

                Ouch... That's an extreme case too... I've been forced to do a facepalm imagining this guy.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post

                  Ouch... That's an extreme case too... I've been forced to do a facepalm imagining this guy.
                  Harro Flenchman,

                  I just got lesurts my DNA tlest...I CHINESE...! Where my Dog? I eat him tonite.



                  PS..so solly, you not Flench, you Bletton...so solly.

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                  • #10
                    Well not far to seek example I can give is myself. I was born and raised in Kazakhstan, but I am identified as Russian by nationality. I have blue passport that identifies me as a Kazakhstan citizen, but in says I am Russian. Since Kazakhstan was part of USSR, many people of different origin live here, 1st generation immigrants and their children who have never been to the country of their ancestors.
                    I personally have seen opposite of what OP had suggested. I know people who were born and raised in Kazakhstan then moved to the UK and got British passport, and voila, they are British!


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Goathika View Post
                      Well not far to seek example I can give is myself. I was born and raised in Kazakhstan, but I am identified as Russian by nationality. I have blue passport that identifies me as a Kazakhstan citizen, but in says I am Russian. Since Kazakhstan was part of USSR, many people of different origin live here, 1st generation immigrants and their children who have never been to the country of their ancestors.
                      I personally have seen opposite of what OP had suggested. I know people who were born and raised in Kazakhstan then moved to the UK and got British passport, and voila, they are British!


                      These mices clearly identify as attack helicopters.

                      As for what you point out, that's a similar issue, yet, is it the same? I think they are only related but with some differences. While your Kazakh dude doesn't have his British passport and know Kzakhstan at first, mine has and doesn't know this country. In this, I think that the problem you are talking about in one of the ways to get the problem I am talking about rather than its opposite.

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                      • #12
                        I saw Charles Aznavour’s funeral on the news today and was surprised to see the president of Armenia there next to President Macron. Aznavour was no more Armenian than Sancta Lux...! When I saw the funeral it reminded me of this topic.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                          If I am not clear, let's say X was born and raised in Canada, but because X has some parents, grandparents or ancestors in Africa, X says "I'm African!".

                          Isn't here something wrong?
                          Well it's very simple, is it not?

                          If you live in a country like canada, where most citizens are whites, and you are not white, then most people will define you first and foremost by your race, since it is not the norm.

                          Thus, such people internalize an identity that is defined by their race, instead of their nationality.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
                            Here in North America, there are several companies that offer to test your DNA so you can know where your ancestors came from. Why is this important? ...it isn't important at all but people want to know and are willing to pay US$100 to find out.
                            Not to mention such tests are always inconsistent and wrong. The only true way to find out your ancestry is to upload your genetic data into one of the unsupervised genetic calculators: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/12...ion-first.html

                            The most popular calculators are supervised, meaning they are padded to force fit certain terms, AKA biased. This is because most users are European and want to see something interesting, so they force things that simply aren't true, like a "WHG" race versus and "EHG" race and an "Atlantic Baltic" race, while no such high resolution is provided for other world regions.

                            But even the unsupervised ones can be a little wonky. The actual reality for humans is that most of us are still very mixed. But titles like "Irish" vs "German" are pretty trivial actually, when both populations are basically similar blends of European and Middle Eastern blood.
                            Last edited by Vespres; 10-05-2018, 09:55 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Vespres View Post

                              Well it's very simple, is it not?

                              If you live in a country like canada, where most citizens are whites, and you are not white, then most people will define you first and foremost by your race, since it is not the norm.

                              Thus, such people internalize an identity that is defined by their race, instead of their nationality.
                              Can you provide any evidence that this is a cause and not a consequence or a mixture? Because it looks like a random claim. Plus it also work for some people describing themselve as Irish or Italians or I don't know what other nationality in North America, the Black people were only an example among others.

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