Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fake Politeness

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • aussieinbg
    started a topic Fake Politeness

    Fake Politeness

    There are many forms of hypocritical behaviour that people exhibit. One of them is outwardly "polite" behaviour which is the exact opposite of their true intentions.

    What do you think of people who try to present a veneer of politeness?

    In what ways can people protect themselves from those who use fake politeness to manipulate people?

    Should people expose others for exhibiting fake politeness? In what ways should they expose them?

    What are some other forms of non-genuine behaviour shown by people which are in contrast to their real intentions? How can you protect yourself from such people?

  • Ryn.Chan
    replied
    In short, fake politeness surely has something to do with real scammers.
    These people are like boardgames. Play it or leave it.
    What good is it to waste time with them? But, sometimes they are funny and horribly stupid in a hilarious way, definitely.
    Just play and laugh, laughter is good. Haha
    But only when you have free time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Etsia
    replied
    Originally posted by aussieinbg View Post

    There were several who were supposedly native English speakers who didn't get that via simple reading comprehension.

    Which was weird to know and I've realized that to be a native speaker does not mean to always get the right meaning of what has been said ... I was surprised to see some natives failing to understand the OP in the right way because everything the OP wrote was done in a pretty neat and easily comprehensible form.

    Leave a comment:


  • aussieinbg
    replied
    Originally posted by Hades91 View Post
    So I understood it too.
    There were several who were supposedly native English speakers who didn't get that via simple reading comprehension.

    Originally posted by Hades91 View Post
    Courtesy and usual polite friendly small talk isn't in my opinion fake politeness, because there isn't an intention of deceiving behind it. I can be very polite to people and they to me without any deeper desire after manipulation, maybe only the fact that you don't show directly what you are really thinking about the other person.
    Fake polities is for me a exaggerated polite behavior with the intention to obscure some facts or to manipulate somebody into accepting of particular opinion, lie or participation in something that isn't beneficial for the person.
    As example we could take those Islam is super friendly belief of love, peace and harmony preacher in this forum. It's clear that the person isn't believing by itself in words the person preaches. As far as you ignore it the person becomes more and more intrusive, because the person wants arouse a reaction. If you react and you are confronting the person with hard facts about Islam, turns such confrontation in denying of reality and later in some form of aggression.
    The patterns of failed fake politeness are mostly the same after the person realizes that its goals can't be reached. After fake politeness attempt comes more or less friendly intimidation and the last step is open uncontrolled aggression.
    This is in normal interpersonal politeness different. Here if the person reacts unexpectedly is indignation very common reaction. Aggression is rather rare in such cases, if aggression appears is the one like the other person involved in such interaction predisposed to act aggressive behind the curtains of politeness.
    However this is just random emotional reaction of particular individuals not planed action like it is in fake politeness.
    It all comes down to looking for then exploiting weaknesses via a game of social engineering and using the protocols of politeness to hack a person. Like most who try to con and manipulate others using social engineering - when people see through them, then these social engineering types get highly butthurt and aggressive.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hades91
    replied
    Originally posted by aussieinbg View Post

    The OP was differentiating between the cases of politeness when used as etiquette and when it is "weaponised", to use an expression.
    So I understood it too. Courtesy and usual polite friendly small talk isn't in my opinion fake politeness, because there isn't an intention of deceiving behind it. I can be very polite to people and they to me without any deeper desire after manipulation, maybe only the fact that you don't show directly what you are really thinking about the other person.
    Fake polities is for me a exaggerated polite behavior with the intention to obscure some facts or to manipulate somebody into accepting of particular opinion, lie or participation in something that isn't beneficial for the person.

    As example we could take those Islam is super friendly belief of love, peace and harmony preacher in this forum. It's clear that the person isn't believing by itself in words the person preaches. As far as you ignore it the person becomes more and more intrusive, because the person wants arouse a reaction. If you react and you are confronting the person with hard facts about Islam, turns such confrontation in denying of reality and later in some form of aggression.
    The patterns of failed fake politeness are mostly the same after the person realizes that its goals can't be reached. After fake politeness attempt comes more or less friendly intimidation and the last step is open uncontrolled aggression.

    This is in normal interpersonal politeness different. Here if the person reacts unexpectedly is indignation very common reaction. Aggression is rather rare in such cases, if aggression appears is the one like the other person involved in such interaction predisposed to act aggressive behind the curtains of politeness.
    However this is just random emotional reaction of particular individuals not planed action like it is in fake politeness.
    Last edited by Hades91; 11-07-2018, 06:02 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • aussieinbg
    replied
    Originally posted by wo-ai-wode-mao View Post
    In a civil society, one must learn to cooperate and coexist with those he does not like nor can agree with. Our entire social infrastructure that allows our businesses to run, farms to grow crops, manufacturers to create products, and distributors to bring those products to the public, relies on the fact that we as individuals can set aside our differences just enough to make sure that the important work that allows society to function to be done.

    Imagine a world where human beings did not even try to cooperate with one another, and we all just solved our differences by being raging cunts to everyone we had a passing dislike of. Fist fights would ensue, gangs and tribes would form, families against families, brothers against brother, society and all of its inner workings would fall apart entirely. If you really want to see how life would be like if everyone just behaved like a total ass, check out places like Oakland, CA or certain parts of Los Angeles; those places and communities have been torn to pieces through violence and crime, and a lack of collective willingness to coexist with those they perceive to be different from. We human beings have adapted to cooperate together to increase the efficiency of our ability to survive and pass on our genetics. The more team effort and cooperation, the more efficient we become. If we didn't learn to become civil and settle or ignore our differences and work together, what would make us any more intelligent than the great apes of the African Savannah?
    The OP was differentiating between the cases of politeness when used as etiquette and when it is "weaponised", to use an expression.

    Leave a comment:


  • Elishar
    replied
    Originally posted by wo-ai-wode-mao View Post
    In a civil society, one must learn to cooperate and coexist with those he does not like nor can agree with. Our entire social infrastructure that allows our businesses to run, farms to grow crops, manufacturers to create products, and distributors to bring those products to the public, relies on the fact that we as individuals can set aside our differences just enough to make sure that the important work that allows society to function to be done.

    Imagine a world where human beings did not even try to cooperate with one another, and we all just solved our differences by being raging cunts to everyone we had a passing dislike of. Fist fights would ensue, gangs and tribes would form, families against families, brothers against brother, society and all of its inner workings would fall apart entirely. If you really want to see how life would be like if everyone just behaved like a total ass, check out places like Oakland, CA or certain parts of Los Angeles; those places and communities have been torn to pieces through violence and crime, and a lack of collective willingness to coexist with those they perceive to be different from. We human beings have adapted to cooperate together to increase the efficiency of our ability to survive and pass on our genetics. The more team effort and cooperation, the more efficient we become. If we didn't learn to become civil and settle or ignore our differences and work together, what would make us any more intelligent than the great apes of the African Savannah?
    Great apes do not live on the savannah,,no trees = no food..Similarly ,, lions do not live in the African jungle because what lions eat lives on the savannah...
    Fist fights gangs etc > this is what there was for early man including the time of Utzli...This system was gradually overtaken by TRADE for mutual benefit but is still very much a part of mans basic character and can be seen in any kindergarten where a bigger stronger child will take the toy he wants by force and suffer no pangs of conscience,,,therefore the behavior you are discussing is LEARNED to ennable mutual co existence..../
    The basic guts /entrails of the UN was a conception designed hopefully to prevent nation from taking up sword against nation...As of today we Ain't doin too good...

    Leave a comment:


  • Etsia
    replied
    Originally posted by wo-ai-wode-mao View Post
    In a civil society, one must learn to cooperate and coexist with those he does not like nor can agree with. Our entire social infrastructure that allows our businesses to run, farms to grow crops, manufacturers to create products, and distributors to bring those products to the public, relies on the fact that we as individuals can set aside our differences just enough to make sure that the important work that allows society to function to be done.

    Imagine a world where human beings did not even try to cooperate with one another, and we all just solved our differences by being raging cunts to everyone we had a passing dislike of. Fist fights would ensue, gangs and tribes would form, families against families, brothers against brother, society and all of its inner workings would fall apart entirely. If you really want to see how life would be like if everyone just behaved like a total ass, check out places like Oakland, CA or certain parts of Los Angeles; those places and communities have been torn to pieces through violence and crime, and a lack of collective willingness to coexist with those they perceive to be different from. We human beings have adapted to cooperate together to increase the efficiency of our ability to survive and pass on our genetics. The more team effort and cooperation, the more efficient we become. If we didn't learn to become civil and settle or ignore our differences and work together, what would make us any more intelligent than the great apes of the African Savannah?
    I'd say to coexist and stay diplomatic and civilized. As far as I understood this thread, it is not about asking people to be rude or show their feelings when they're enraged, it is about hypocritical people who pretend to have a positive attitude towards people and things they dislike. It is completely possible to remain civilized even showing the attitude without faking sincerity, it is possible to remain polite but cold with someone you strongly dislike and tell them you dislike them without being passive aggressive and bitchy, it is important to remain diplomatic and follow the norms but it is never a must to pretend and bitch.

    Leave a comment:


  • wo-ai-wode-mao
    replied
    In a civil society, one must learn to cooperate and coexist with those he does not like nor can agree with. Our entire social infrastructure that allows our businesses to run, farms to grow crops, manufacturers to create products, and distributors to bring those products to the public, relies on the fact that we as individuals can set aside our differences just enough to make sure that the important work that allows society to function to be done.

    Imagine a world where human beings did not even try to cooperate with one another, and we all just solved our differences by being raging cunts to everyone we had a passing dislike of. Fist fights would ensue, gangs and tribes would form, families against families, brothers against brother, society and all of its inner workings would fall apart entirely. If you really want to see how life would be like if everyone just behaved like a total ass, check out places like Oakland, CA or certain parts of Los Angeles; those places and communities have been torn to pieces through violence and crime, and a lack of collective willingness to coexist with those they perceive to be different from. We human beings have adapted to cooperate together to increase the efficiency of our ability to survive and pass on our genetics. The more team effort and cooperation, the more efficient we become. If we didn't learn to become civil and settle or ignore our differences and work together, what would make us any more intelligent than the great apes of the African Savannah?

    Leave a comment:


  • aussieinbg
    replied
    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
    It's actually not, there is a special word for it in french which is salamalecs and that fits to what the OP is describing in the most extreme form... Definition : "Exaggerated and hypocritical politeness". Feel free to ask the etymology because it could be meaningful.
    The "thank you for your opinion" was highly hypocritical but not really exaggerated like salamalecs for sure and is rather a kind of sarcasm, but it's still fake (puting apart that it's empty of all content).
    "Thank you for your opinion" was not only hypocritical but also in the context highly manipulative - trying to serve that poster as a means of manipulating an escape from a situation he had found himself in.

    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
    However, politeness and courtesy are often an accepted hypocrisy from people. Actually, saying "hello, how are you" is rarely very sincere and people don't expect a lot more than "fine, and you?" (and simply won't answer anything else in most of case). I personally appreciate and give importance to the basic "hello", "goodbye", "please", "thank you" and tend to remind people around me to at least tell thank you when they get something (except from me, as it's uncorrect to demand a thank you)
    I think it can be both.

    In the case of greeting someone and enquiring how they are when you don't usually do so and you are only doing so because you want something out of them is highly manipulative and hypocritical,

    On the other hand, greeting and enquiring "how are you?" is a very important part of initiating contact. It takes something like about 2 or 2 1/2 minutes for people to tune into another person's accent or the way that they speak. So simple "meet and greet" gives you time for that, Also, the question "how are you?" allows each person to ascertain the state of the other person. There's nothing manipulative in all this - it's about interfacing.

    I also very much like to receive a "thank you" from someone when I've done something to assist - and when it is sincere. I also like to thank people sincerely when they have helped me. The type of "thank you" I don't like to receive is the one where "I'll thank this person and butter him up so that it will be easier for me to get him to do it again" - that's not really thanking the person but being merely manipulative.

    A request with "please" - a sincere one gives the person being requested time to think over the request and time to consider the feasibility of performing the request. It also doesn't pressure the person into performing the request. On the other hand, it can be done in a very manipulative manner such as tone and intonation of voice being used to effectively emotionally blackmail the person into complying.

    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
    but that was not the point of the OP I think.
    It's actually an excellent thing to consider I think - the boundaries where normal everyday politeness is genuine and where it is for the purposes of pure manipulation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sancta_Lux
    replied
    Originally posted by Laura005 View Post

    You prove my point. This is all about your perception of “polite conversation” and the value to which you assign it. I’d call this a personal issue.

    IF in fact the comment had a double entendres, that does not make it “fake politeness” that makes it ambiguously sarcastic.

    Don’t visit the Southern US whatever you do.
    It's actually not, there is a special word for it in french which is salamalecs and that fits to what the OP is describing in the most extreme form... Definition : "Exaggerated and hypocritical politeness". Feel free to ask the etymology because it could be meaningful.
    The "thank you for your opinion" was highly hypocritical but not really exaggerated like salamalecs for sure and is rather a kind of sarcasm, but it's still fake (puting apart that it's empty of all content).

    However, politeness and courtesy are often an accepted hypocrisy from people. Actually, saying "hello, how are you" is rarely very sincere and people don't expect a lot more than "fine, and you?" (and simply won't answer anything else in most of case). I personally appreciate and give importance to the basic "hello", "goodbye", "please", "thank you" and tend to remind people around me to at least tell thank you when they get something (except from me, as it's uncorrect to demand a thank you) but that was not the point of the OP I think.
    Last edited by Sancta_Lux; 10-31-2018, 07:07 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • aussieinbg
    replied
    Originally posted by Etsia View Post
    I'm not a native speaker but she could no way bluff me - her fake politeness and passive aggression have been present in her posts since the day she came to the forum. First, it is very impolite to say 'this forum could be good...' which implies she thinks it is shit, then all this rant about superusers just because her self centeredness was challenged ...the term 'superuser' itself is used to look down on those who she calls super users, that is those who have stayed here for some time and who dared argue with her I guess, though in my opinion super users do not exist and this 'polite' lady wishes to be a super user and grab all the attention playing sweet and nice herself...
    Still trying to work out what exactly a "super user" is supposed to be according to the poster who started up the "noobie verses super user" thread. Perhaps she might inform us if she herself even knows...

    Generally, it is those who are trying to impose themselves "for whatever reason" who feel that desperate need to play the highly hypocritical "sweet and nice" game. This is generally played by those after attention when they lack attributes which get one noticed in a positive manner such as intelligence, persuasive arguments based on evidence or even genuine humour and wit.

    Another group who have been playing that "saccharine sweet" game on the forum over time have been religious cults such as Islamists doing dawah.

    Originally posted by Etsia View Post
    Then the thread about a book club speaks volumes about her too - no one wished to join in so a pushy half rant, half demand from her side arrived in her answer. So no way such a person can be called polite in a genuine way. I take it as her personal issues The most ridiculous part in all this is such people demand a warm welcome and friendliness and
    It does tend to be failtroll types who try to impose themselves. They need attention either in the form of a red carpet welcome or, failing that, they op for trolling. Usually it turns very much into failtrolling for various logical reasons following that stage.

    It all most likely comes down to the lack of attention that they receive outside of internet - hence they also opt for highly projective ranting and insults to try to elicit the emotive feelings that they themselves feel. They want others to be as miserable as themselves.

    Originally posted by Etsia View Post
    believe that their sneaky passive aggression is not visible only if they write thank you or some other polite phrase...
    The sort of personality that Italians describe as "they think that their shit doesn't stink".

    Originally posted by Etsia View Post
    Finally, she is super butthurt so keeps trying to insult aussie who has really touched her sensitive nerve and nature....
    I perhaps was merely the first one who by chance observed it. So, I'm probably more on the receiving end of the "love" as a result. Usually, it is the first person who uncovers the faker who is on the receiving end of the "love"

    Objectively speaking, I'm much nicer than some people around here when confronting thinly veiled highly antisocial behaviour. If these people had "discovered" her first, I suspect that they would have sent her butthurt from huge into the multi-megatonne range.

    Leave a comment:


  • iLondon
    replied
    Originally posted by Laura005 View Post

    You prove my point. This is all about your perception of “polite conversation” and the value to which you assign it. I’d call this a personal issue.

    IF in fact the comment had a double entendres, that does not make it “fake politeness” that makes it ambiguously sarcastic.

    Don’t visit the Southern US whatever you do.

    Totally agreed.

    That last part made me giggle, I can only imagine what he would be like there... a fish out of water comes to mind

    Leave a comment:


  • Etsia
    replied
    Originally posted by aussieinbg View Post
    .......obviously trying to deflect while at the same time slipping in an ad hominen that is most likely an attempt to troll for a perceptive native speaker and by bluffing and bullshitting non-native speakers that you are "nice".
    I'm not a native speaker but she could no way bluff me - her fake politeness and passive aggression have been present in her posts since the day she came to the forum. First, it is very impolite to say 'this forum could be good...' which implies she thinks it is shit, then all this rant about superusers just because her self centeredness was challenged ...the term 'superuser' itself is used to look down on those who she calls super users, that is those who have stayed here for some time and who dared argue with her I guess, though in my opinion super users do not exist and this 'polite' lady wishes to be a super user and grab all the attention playing sweet and nice herself...Then the thread about a book club speaks volumes about her too - no one wished to join in so a pushy half rant, half demand from her side arrived in her answer. So no way such a person can be called polite in a genuine way. I take it as her personal issues The most ridiculous part in all this is such people demand a warm welcome and friendliness and believe that their sneaky passive aggression is not visible only if they write thank you or some other polite phrase...Finally, she is super butthurt so keeps trying to insult aussie who has really touched her sensitive nerve and nature....
    Last edited by Etsia; 10-31-2018, 12:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • aussieinbg
    replied
    Originally posted by Laura005 View Post
    You prove my point.
    You haven't "proved" anything. You merely verbally masturbated the following statement without evidence:

    Originally posted by Laura005 View Post
    This is all about your perception of “polite conversation” and the value to which you assign it. I’d call this a personal issue.
    Your "proof" consists of this unsubstantiated ranting and an attempt at an ad hominen with the statement "I'd call this a personal issue". My perception? In what manner? The problem lies with you as I demonstrate below regarding your reading "skills".

    But you do give a rather good demonstration of Orwellian-type politically correct newspeak with the sentence "I'd call this a personal issue". Why don't you just say it out loud - a rant that "I'm mentally stable" or whatever, the unsubstantiated sorts of things people say when they are in butthurt rant mode But of course it would seem that you are doing the passive aggressive trolling thing behind a curtain of political correctness

    In short, you are obviously trying to deflect while at the same time slipping in an ad hominen that is most likely an attempt to troll for a perceptive native speaker and by bluffing and bullshitting non-native speakers that you are "nice".

    To be brutally honest, I'm absolutely concerned that a word like "prove" has been thrown around in the above manner by someone who supposedly has a scientific education at a university.

    Originally posted by Laura005 View Post
    IF in fact the comment had a double entendres, that does not make it “fake politeness” that makes it ambiguously sarcastic.
    I don't want to sound arrogant here, but your reading comprehension skills are abysmal. Just about everyone here understood it without any prompting except for you and someone from Britain who is demonstrably very much a bullshit artist. There is neither a double entrendre at play nor is it "ambiguously sarcastic".

    Reading hints (I never have to go this far with just about any undergraduate I've ever worked with in Bulgaria):
    • the first 2 sentences of the OP very much make concrete the exact meaning of "Fake Politeness" and
    • the nature of most of the questions asked in the OP would make absolutely no sense if asked from the perspective of "faking politeness to make things nice and smooth".
    An aside: Reading comprehension skills in the US as a general rule are very poor. It's scary what I'd seen while teaching ESL - supposed graduates in literature from big name US universities unable to handle without a lot of effort texts that they are supposed to be working with when teaching students - and these are quite basic texts!!! When I discuss with them "what they had studied" and postmodernist keywords like "deconstruction" pop out of their mouths, I know it's "game over"; any groups that they work with will be f*ed up afterwards and I, in spite of my highly Atheist tendencies, pray that some skydaddy out there will intervene and I won't get them .

    I must complement these people in a back-handed manner however - they are very good with politically correct Orwellian-type newspeak terminology and structures such as "I'd call this a personal issue" and playing the manipulation game - a perfect demonstration of the "Fake Politeness" that the OP deals with.

    Originally posted by Laura005 View Post
    Don’t visit the Southern US whatever you do.
    "When in Rome do as the Romans do". I'm not living in Rome nor am I visiting Rome. I'm merely resident in a former Roman province.

    But don't worry, I can speak PC when in a shark cage full of politically correct people and there is no escape. However, I do have to reach for a vomit bag afterwards. Not everyone in the US South speaks like that - many still speak in a very straightforward manner.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X