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Greatest empire of all time?

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  • Greatest empire of all time?

    What is the greatest historical empire (not including modern-pseudo ones like NATO or the american military) that ever existed? Although many people I know say Rome, there are numerous other contenders like:

    the british empire
    the portuguese empire
    the byzantine empire
    the mongol empire
    achaemenid empire
    macedonian (hellenic) empire under Alexander the Great

    I'm not just taking about pure size but global influence as well as how it left a mark on the political, cultural, and academic landscape of humanity. Also morality may not necessarily play a role here so the ummayad caliphate and the ottoman empire are also eligible despite often large historical scrutiny. What do you guys think?
    Last edited by Aetris64; 08-29-2016, 05:44 PM.

  • #2
    Roman empire was the greatest empire for sure... That's not my favourite, but that's the greatest considering its influence on the occident, even today.

    Also the Han empire is a great empire to me.


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    • #3
      Roman- for the basics of law still used till today
      British - colonies, also effects of their actions are still visible today
      http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100803203515

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      • #4
        Spanish, British and Roman empire

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        • #5
          The Byzantine Empire for me.

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          • #6
            Clearly the Macedonian one, but I'm partial to the Republic of Macedonia.

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            • #7
              Mauryan Empire undoubtedly.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RalitsaZaitseva View Post
                Clearly the Macedonian one, but I'm partial to the Republic of Macedonia.
                That's fine, as long as you understand that Alexander's empire is hellenic and has no connection to the modern day slavic republic located above Greece.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by john_myung View Post
                  Roman- for the basics of law still used till today
                  British - colonies, also effects of their actions are still visible today
                  Can agree with this, but I also think the portuguese deserve credit because they were the first global empire to travel to every continent and also the longest lasting one!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Aetris64 View Post

                    That's fine, as long as you understand that Alexander's empire is hellenic and has no connection to the modern day slavic republic located above Greece.
                    No it's not. The ancient Macedonians were not hellenic either. Even Greece requires a lot of goodwill to be considered hellenic. To compare present day Greece to the ancent Greeks is similar to comparing the pharaonic Egypt to the current one. Real Greeks won battles against all odds. Modern day Greeks are pathetic forum warriors whose main war is over the right of another country to call itself Macedonia.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RalitsaZaitseva View Post

                      No it's not. The ancient Macedonians were not hellenic either. Even Greece requires a lot of goodwill to be considered hellenic. To compare present day Greece to the ancent Greeks is similar to comparing the pharaonic Egypt to the current one. Real Greeks won battles against all odds. Modern day Greeks are pathetic forum warriors whose main war is over the right of another country to call itself Macedonia.
                      I've seen you post a lot on other forum posts and you don't seem like a troll so I'm going to assume you're not trolling here. I'll bite.

                      If Macedonia isn't greek and Alexander the great wasn't greek what exactly was he? I've argued this thousands of times and the slavic responses get more and more funny.

                      Not only Alexander, not only the region, but the NAME Macedonia is greek xD. Direct from a dictionary: The name Macedonia (Greek: Μακεδονία, Makedonía) comes from the Greek Μακεδόνες (Makedónes), deriving ultimately from the ancient Greek adjective μακεδνός (makednós), meaning "tall, taper", possibly descriptive of the people.[6] It also shares the same root as the noun μάκρος (mákros), meaning "length" in both ancient and modern Greek.[

                      Alexander was in Pella which was a rural village in the kingdom of Macedon to Philip. Who was Philip? Philip II of Macedon[1] (Greek: Φίλιππος Β΄ ὁ Μακεδών, Phílippos II ho Makedṓn; 382–336 BC) was the king (Basileus) of the Ancient Greekkingdom of Macedon from 359 BC until his assassination in 336 BC.

                      Alexander also carried the title of Basileus (Greek: βασιλεύς) which means King or Monarch. Alexander and his father were part of the Argead Dynasty, here is another excerpt from the first available article anyone can look up for themselves:

                      The Argead dynasty (Greek: Ἀργεάδαι) was an ancient Greek royal house. They were the ruling dynasty of Macedon from about 700 to 310 BC. Their tradition, as described in ancient Greek historiography, traced their origins to Argos, in southern Greece, hence the name Argeads or Argives.[1][2][3] Initially, the rulers of the homonymous tribe,[4] by the time of Philip II they had expanded their reign further, to include under the rule of Macedonia all Upper Macedonian states. The family's most celebrated members were Philip II of Macedonia and Alexander the Great, under whose leadership the kingdom of Macedonia gradually gained predominance throughout Greece, defeated the Achaemenid Empire and expanded as far as Egypt and India. The mythical founder of the Argead dynasty is King Caranus.[5][6]
                      Alexander was raised with a classical greek education background, and his mentor was Aristotle (or are you going to tell me he wasn't Greek either? xD). Not only Alexander, his father, and his father before that, but the kingdom of Macedon spoke an ancient greek dialect (found on Philip's grave in Veronia), they worshipped ancient greek gods and were able to participate in the olympic games. Barbarians or other people belonging to non-greek city states were not allowed to compete in the olympic games, another historical fact.

                      Another excerpt direct from the first article available on a simple google search from wikipedia: His (Philip's) son Alexander the Great pursued his father's effort to command the whole of Greece through the federation of Greek states, a feat he finally accomplished after destroying a revolting Thebes. Alexander then led this force in a large campaign against the Achaemenid Empire, in retaliation for the invasion of Greece in the 5th century BC.
                      In the ensuing wars of Alexander the Great, Alexander overthrew the Achaemenid Empire, conquering a territory that came to stretch as far as the Indus River. For a brief period his Macedonian Empire was the most powerful in the world, the definitive Hellenistic state, inaugurating the transition to this new period of Ancient Greek civilization. Greek arts and literature flourished in the new conquered lands and advancements in philosophy and science were spread to the ancient world. Of particular importance were the contributions of Aristotle, a teacher to Alexander, whose teachings carried on many centuries past his death.

                      The Vergina star, the historical symbol for ancient macedon and the current greek province, had 12 points representing the 12 olympian gods, also found on Philip's grave.

                      Secondly, it is an oxymoron to say greeks are not hellenic because greeks today are know as οι Έλληνες​, (the hellenes) as they were throughout their entire history. Arguing that the multiple city states and kingdoms in what is today Greece were not hellenic won't work out well either for you, but I encourage you to try your best.

                      Thirdly, the slavic republic of Macedonia (created ONLY after the downfall of Tito's yugoslavia) was formerly known as Vadarska and contained regions primarily from western bulgaria. Modern day people from this country are slavic peoples who speak a dialect of Bulgarian. On top of this, slavs only settled in the balkan peninsula and the area of ancient macedon in 6th century AD, nearly 1000 years after Alexander existed xD.

                      Fourthly, IF ALL OF THIS EVIDENCE ISN'T ENOUGH, the freaking ex-president of FYROM also admitted on national television that the country has NO connection to Alexander and ancient macedonians xD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F11Fbwr59CQ

                      And for the record, I have no problem with slavic people from FYROM, it's just not cool to steal someone's history and then lie about it.

                      Anything else?
                      Last edited by Aetris64; 08-31-2016, 03:57 AM.

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                      • #12
                        I'm not saying the Republic of Macedonia has any connection to the ancient Macedonians. Had you actually read what I wrote, you'd have noticed what I said was the modern Greeks have no connection to the ancient Macedonians either, and Alexander was Macedonian rather than Greek. Besides, the Republic of Macedonian is not exclusively slavic, it's called Macedonia for a reason, and the clue is in its name.

                        Nevertheless, the Republic of Macedonia, while having no direct connection to the ancient Macedonia, has every right to claim and appropriate the ancient Macedonian heritage if they so wish, as can any country. Ancient Macedonia is not a subject of intellectual property disputes, not does modern Greece have the monopoly over it.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RalitsaZaitseva View Post
                          I'm not saying the Republic of Macedonia has any connection to the ancient Macedonians. Had you actually read what I wrote, you'd have noticed what I said was the modern Greeks have no connection to the ancient Macedonians either, and Alexander was Macedonian rather than Greek. Besides, the Republic of Macedonian is not exclusively slavic, it's called Macedonia for a reason, and the clue is in its name.

                          Nevertheless, the Republic of Macedonia, while having no direct connection to the ancient Macedonia, has every right to claim and appropriate the ancient Macedonian heritage if they so wish, as can any country. Ancient Macedonia is not a subject of intellectual property disputes, not does modern Greece have the monopoly over it.
                          So when you get defeated with cold hard facts and logic you resort to semantic arguments. I'm getting more convinced you actually are a troll. Are you friends with lauri LOL?

                          Again, the Argead dynasty which Alexander descends from is from Argos, located in the southern peninsula called the peloponesse.. 2500 years isn't enough for the ethnic genome of a people to change or evolve, if this can be agreed upon by biologists along with the fact that every single archeological find has attributed the people of ancient macedon to belonging to ancient greek civilization, where did the macedonians and other greek peoples in the greek peninsula suddenly go and who replaced them? Did they just disappear into thin air? xD

                          Homer and the Illiad were well before Alexander and are recognized worldwide by any reputable historian as greek literature and figures, as the philosophers who came before like Socrates were as well. Please go into a university class and try to argue that Homer and Socrates aren't Greek and have no connection to Greek people today and don't cry when you get laughed out the room ^^

                          Another quote from the article:

                          The ethnogenesis of the Greek nation is linked to the development of Pan-Hellenism in the 8th century BC.[62] According to some scholars, the foundational event was the Olympic Games in 776 BC, when the idea of a common Hellenism among the Greek tribes was first translated into a shared cultural experience and Hellenism was primarily a matter of common culture.[42] The works of Homer (i.e. Iliad and Odyssey) and Hesiod (i.e. Theogony) were written in the 8th century BC, becoming the basis of the national religion, ethos, history and mythology.[63] The Oracle of Apollo at Delphi was established in this period.[64]

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCYg1TvDM5Y

                          Apparently the only place where Macedonians aren't Greek is in your head xD

                          Sure, they can call themselves whatever they like but it doesn't make it true. This is like the first european pilgrims going to North America and calling themselves Iroquois then expecting the Iroquois to feel indifferent to it LOL!





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                          • #14
                            Also any actual academic sources regarding the connections of ancient greeks to modern ones which debunk any of the facts presented would be great, or are you just gonna keep shaking your head?
                            Last edited by Aetris64; 08-31-2016, 03:57 AM.

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                            • #15
                              My arguments have all be consistently the same. You just seem to be having a hard time understanding it. Modern day Republic of Macedonia has every right to claim the ancient Macedonians as part of their culture. That's not something that requires anyone else's permission, much less that from the Greeks. And the ancient Macedonians were not Greeks. That's why they were called Macedonians and not called Greeks.

                              That is also why Macedonians had a distinct culture from that of the Greeks, and a different language. You can compare an ancient Macedonian text to an ancient Greek text from the same period, and the linguistic differences are greater there, that those you'll find by comparing ancient Greek with modern Greek.

                              And the reason why even modern Greeks can hardly be considered hellenic is the same reason why modern day Egyptian can't be considered as a seamless evolution from ancient Egyptians. The language has changed, the culture has changed, the religion has changed. You today have as much in common with an ancient Greek, as a modern German or a modern Turk does, or indeed a modern Macedonian.

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