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  • They Came Before Columbus

    Hey everyone,
    How many of you have read Ivan Van Sertima's 'They Came Before Columbus' and what are your thoughts/comments on it?

  • #2

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    • #3
      I have not rad it but there are many claims of people hitting N America before Columbus. Even as far back as the Roman Epire you have stories of people landing on the new world. It is also believed that some African tribes may have been able to reach NA by water travel. But it is the arrival of Columbus and following people that really got set up and expanded into the New World. I did not watch video sorry. I will check book out from library and ttry to expand on my response.

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      • #4
        Native Americans were still in the Americas and the Caribbean before anyone. Afterall, part of the book discusses how they traded with people who were bblack. Tells me Natives were still here first.

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        • #5
          I've learned to take a very critical look at Afro-centric historians. If Africans did emigrate to South America, I would assume that extensive archeological evidence would be available. There have been some crazy voyages, such as the Viking settlers in North America - which has been substantiated by excavated settlements. The Phoenicians traveled south along the coast of Africa, while Muslims traders reached the South Pacific long before Europeans. There are a few theories that the Chinese reached America as well.

          But a book originally publish in 1976 pointing to similarities in art styles and culture is not the same as finding products made in Africa and discovered in South America. There are degrees of archeological evidence and what little I know about the book does not point toward conclusive facts.

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          • #6
            Look up the Kensington Rune Stone. It is one of the first validated markers of Pre-Columbus explorers to North America.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by fogrunner View Post
              I've learned to take a very critical look at Afro-centric historians. If Africans did emigrate to South America, I would assume that extensive archeological evidence would be available. There have been some crazy voyages, such as the Viking settlers in North America - which has been substantiated by excavated settlements. The Phoenicians traveled south along the coast of Africa, while Muslims traders reached the South Pacific long before Europeans. There are a few theories that the Chinese reached America as well.

              But a book originally publish in 1976 pointing to similarities in art styles and culture is not the same as finding products made in Africa and discovered in South America. There are degrees of archeological evidence and what little I know about the book does not point toward conclusive facts.
              Problem is that science these days has been co opted by social and political agendas. Hundreds of slaves from Africa were brought over between 1500 to 1700 by Portuguese and Spanish ships to replace the weaker Indians that they enslaved to work the mines, sugar farms and pearl beds. There were incidents of slaves escaping into the jungle. Possibly making contact with rebellious tribes and resulting in a mix of cultures and physical remains. Problem is, as with the theory climate change and man's direct impact, many people pushing these theories are pushing only facts that support their theory and ignoring other possibilities or explanations.

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              • #8
                Well the obvious Viking tails of which there are ruins at it looks like a few places (L'anse aux Meadows,...Leaf Ericson potential ties) in Newfoundland now for sure. Jean de Cousin is an interesting story. Given the Norman ties to Norway, Iceland, perhaps the two tie in? I find it interesting. I find the Alonzo Pinon tie to Columbus from Jean de Cousin extremely interesting. In the end, like any "discovery." IF you don't tell anyone about it or publish it....its hard to find it useful. Sure the natives came over the land bridge from Siberia....and the Polynesians it look like now originated in the Philippines (mtDNA sequencing) but if you can't repeat it or tell anyone about it....how useful is it?

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                • #9
                  The way I see it, it's probably wrong but so what? is that there must have been a time when mankind just wandered the earth following the weather and the food supply. When it got cold he went south, following the sun (this is the northern hemisphere) and the animals which were food. The plant life was also controlled by the weather and Sunlight. SO!! If the people were wandering the globe in search of shelter, fresh vegetables and meat, which, to be honest, was all that concerned them in those days. There is a very good chance that they came across America and India and Africa and all other continents from a variety of directions. Looking at it this way I fail to see how anyone can claim to have discovered anywhere.!! These places were just there--as was mankind. We all came out of the primordial swamp together.!!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by theyokel View Post
                    The way I see it, it's probably wrong but so what? is that there must have been a time when mankind just wandered the earth following the weather and the food supply. When it got cold he went south, following the sun (this is the northern hemisphere) and the animals which were food. The plant life was also controlled by the weather and Sunlight. SO!! If the people were wandering the globe in search of shelter, fresh vegetables and meat, which, to be honest, was all that concerned them in those days. There is a very good chance that they came across America and India and Africa and all other continents from a variety of directions. Looking at it this way I fail to see how anyone can claim to have discovered anywhere.!! These places were just there--as was mankind. We all came out of the primordial swamp together.!!
                    I think we're approaching this from different directions. Obviously humans arrived in the Americas. The problems arises when current cultures try to "steal" ancient cultures in an attempt to justify their importance. It is mostly an Afro-centric thing, which is sad, as Africa has a rich variety of art and cultures - no need to try to take South American cultures from Amerindians.

                    It's also quite interesting from a historical standpoint to see how cultures managed to immigrate. Sailing across the south Atlantic in rough boats is quite a feat if it did happen.

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                    • #11
                      I am inclined to agree with fogrunner and his position.

                      Anywho, it isn't much of a surprise that Columbus did not "discover" America. But I think the biggest argument is a semantic one. Indeed, the Vikings may have arrived in the new world and landed in Canada and migrated down to as far as Minnesota, with the aforementioned Kensington runestone, although its legitimacy is questionable. However, they built no permanent settlements nor made a lasting impact on the indigenous people and the land itself. I have read many articles stating that various cultures landed in America ranging from the Welsh, templar Knights, the Jews, the Chinese, the Japanese etc. but none provided any lasting sociocultural evidence. Columbus and the subsequent voyages changed the face of North America and further by the English until te various mass migrations of all cultures, forcible or otherwise.

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                      • #12
                        I read about few "before Columbus"
                        Celts - St.Brendan who was moved by hurricane on "land with grases and longhaired people"
                        Vikings - Eric The Red
                        Chineses - In California was find some chuneses money
                        Africans - Tolteks statue with strong africans faces

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                        • #13
                          This was an interesting debate shame its over. There is a lot of evidence for Africans in America , its not just Van Sertima. So Africans dont need to steal South or North America, they were there . If you do your reserch its quite obvious that Africans were the first on the the globe so therefore the first to populate most places. This is mainstream knowledge This isnt Afrocentrism its historical fact chaps ....google it In fact it seems Eurocentricity to deny whats obvious .....Gad man

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                          • #14
                            If they came before Columbus, it was probably due to over-excitement. Perhaps they should have had a tug or two BEFORE Columbus. Just rub one out and loosen up. I mean really, who wants to drop a load before the Italian in the party? Am I right?

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                            • #15
                              Fogrunner ::. " The problem arises when current cultures try to steal ancient cultures in an attempt to justify their importance,it is mostly an afrocentric thing..." Probably aided by postmodernist bullshit...
                              What things are the blacks NOT claiming ??? They claim to have been the Egyptian pharonic culture,,,,they claim to have been the biblical Hebrews including jesus,the internet is absolutely Full of black claims to ancient glory..The blacks did not sail across the red sea to arabia ,the Arabians sailed across to get African gold and African slaves,then the Arabians sailed to Indonesia because they knew about its existence from the Chinese who visited arabia...

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