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  • Originally posted by CaymanWolvon View Post

    your dream world is really pink that you're seeing everything as pink as in your dreams, try to prevent your homosexual opinions existing from your mind
    Seems like more truth about the bottoman turdpile has made you nervous again gaymanpedo

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CaymanWolvon View Post
      genocide: one side is completely innocent, and the non-innocent side is genocidal-genocide maker.
      is this taught in Turkish schools? It does not make sense - and is not what the international definition of genocide is.

      At first who defines somebody as innocent? The genocide makers? Why would they genocide them then when they think they are innocent friends and not enemies? Of course there is always an excuse found to destroy a whole group inclusive the innocents.....and this happened with Armenians and Greeks.
      Last edited by Suna123; 01-12-2019, 09:25 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by CaymanWolvon View Post


        Funny how french are supporting claims of a non-based genocide events to supress the genocides commited by french even since crusade periods, if those genocides commited by europeans weren't, the world would have probably been 1 billion more crowded, how do you feel to be one of those people who are responsible for the murdering of those 1.000.000.000 people's ancestors?
        Whinning, always whinning... I'm the first saying that French have commited genocides and massacres and ethnocides, starting with the Vendéens so try again

        As for being 1 millions more crowded, I'mù laughing, France also have permited some areas to see their populations growing up like crazy, yet those people are still whinning about a so called genocide (like in Algeria, lel).

        Ps : Don't be mad and don't switch the topic to France because I point out your incoherences, or should I avoid to show you your mistake because it hurts you too much? If yes, I'm sooooo sorryyyy, I won't talk about the massacres and how Ottomans treated their colonies (because let's be honnest, it was) before the Europeans came to beat their ass. Oh shit, I did, may you never read this because I probably have broken your so little and weak heart :v
        Last edited by Sancta_Lux; 01-12-2019, 11:05 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
          The Holocoust of WW2 is a Systematic genocide.
          "For whatever reason", you didn't state explicitly that there was "no systematic genocide" of Armenians during WW1... funny that.

          Marching masses of people through the desert without sufficient water or food definitely constitutes systematic mass murder. More on that later.

          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
          There were not any Racist or Barbarian laws against Greeks or Armenians in Ottoman Empire.
          There was Sharia in the Ottoman Empire - which is highly implicitly bigoted and barbarian against those not of peadophile Muhammad's death cult. As a general rule, there were very few Greeks or Armenians identifying as "Greek" or "Armenian" in the Ottoman Empire after they had converted to peadophile Muhamamad's cult. After cult conversion, they tended to identify as "Turk".

          By the way, speaking negatively about a religion or cult is not racist. If it is unsubstantiated without evidence, you might call it bigoted but it is not racist.

          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
          They had their Churches and Schools.
          So did Jews in the ghettos during Nazi rule. They had their schools and synagogues.

          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
          Genocide claims are non based because There were not even 1,5 Million Armenians in Ottoman Empire.
          Look at Ottoman Censius of 1914. There were 1.173.422 (Including West Side of Turkey, For Example: There were 82,000 Armenians in Istanbul)
          Ottoman archives can't be trusted without other evidence because there was a systematic effort during both the late Ottoman and post-Ottoman eras to destroy incriminating archives.

          Still, like any other murder case, whether it is mass murder or a single homicide - even when there is a concerted effort to try and hide all the evidence, there is always something that gets missed. The Turks might have been able to filter their Ottoman archives - but they didn't have access to the archives of WW1 allies such as Germany who were reporting on what the Ottomans were doing at the time.

          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
          428.000 (Only in east because They were supporting Russia in WW1 and Were killing Turkish people and burning Turkish villages) of them had to relocation to Syria, Lebannon, Jordan. 400.000 of them were escaped to Russia and migrated to US/European Countries.
          Pulling statistics out of your arse - particularly from "official Turkish sources" from which were deliberately pulled anything that incriminated any Turks for mass murder.

          Firstly, the WW1 Ottoman-inspired genocides are not the first contemporary mass murder of Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians, e.g from the 1890s:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamidian_massacres

          Secondly, huge numbers of Armenians and others were "emigrating" to use Turkish terminology by being marched over long distances over deserts under armed guard. Now, sending many many 1000s of people across deserts under armed guard without sufficient water or food to places like Deir Azzor in what is now Syria is what is known as a death march. Let's see how long you survive in the middle of summer with little water in a desert.

          Now, just this one incident reveals the whole Turkish account of events during WW1 as being a complete crock of shit. Driving masses of people across a desert to die is both a means of mass-murdering people and trying to cover it up by getting the evidence out of sight. Archive evidence out of reach of Turks who are into covering up mass murder merely further substantiates all this.

          Finally, as mentioned before, it is a pattern of the Ottomans and its successor state to genocide Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks - both before and after the genocides of WW1 by the Ottomans.

          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
          In 19th Century There were 22 Armenian Ministers, 29 Armenians have been Ottoman Paşa, 33 Armenians have been Member of deputy, There were 7 Armenian Ambassador and 11 Consul of Ottoman Empire and More than 100 Officers.
          And the Nazis were even doing deals with Jews. So what?

          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
          Istanbul Armenian Patriarchate:
          Armenian School:
          So what? The Nazis had during the height of the holocaust so-called "paradise ghettos" to impress Red Cross inspectors - very much for propaganda purposes. Funny how Armenian and Greek churches survived in Istanbul where all the inspecting and observing diplomats were located - but were largely destroyed or turned into mosques outside of Istanbul
          Last edited by aussieinbg; 01-12-2019, 11:07 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by aussieinbg View Post



            There was Sharia in the Ottoman Empire - which is highly implicitly bigoted and barbarian against those not of peadophile Muhammad's death cult. As a general rule, there were very few Greeks or Armenians identifying as "Greek" or "Armenian" in the Ottoman Empire after they had converted to peadophile Muhamamad's cult. After cult conversion, they tended to identify as "Turk".

            Ottoman archives can't be trusted without other evidence because there was a systematic effort during both the late Ottoman and post-Ottoman eras to destroy incriminating archives.

            Still, like any other murder case, whether it is mass murder or a single homicide - even when there is a concerted effort to try and hide all the evidence, there is always something that gets missed. The Turks might have been able to filter their Ottoman archives - but they didn't have access to the archives of WW1 allies such as Germany who were reporting on what the Ottomans were doing at the time.


            Pulling statistics out of your arse - particularly from "official Turkish sources" from which were deliberately pulled anything that incriminated any Turks for mass murder.

            Firstly, the WW1 Ottoman-inspired genocides are not the first contemporary mass murder of Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians, e.g from the 1890s:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamidian_massacres


            Secondly, huge numbers of Armenians and others were "emigrating" to use Turkish terminology by being marched over long distances over deserts under armed guard. Now, sending many many 1000s of people across deserts under armed guard without sufficient water or food to places like Deir Azzor in what is now Syria is what is known as a death march. Let's see how long you survive in the middle of summer with little water in a desert.


            Funny how Armenian and Greek churches survived in Istanbul where all the inspecting and observing diplomats were located - but were largely destroyed or turned into mosques outside of Istanbul
            There wasn't Sharia against them. In the multinational Ottoman Empire, people were divided into groups only according to their religion; nation concept in the modern sense did not exist and in this regard, the Jewish, the Armenians (Assyrian accepted as Armenians) and the Rums (Greeks) who composed nearly the half of the population lived freely until the collapse of the state without losing their identities and being forced to convert to Islam. In the Ottoman Empire, non-Muslim groups benefited from the protection of the Islamic law due to the Treaty of Zimmet. (Dhimmi)

            Well, Actually This Census was maiden by Frenchs. Also Churches in Christian villages Baptize the people and Record their names. It's impossible to hide their religions especially after Ottoman Reform Edict of 1856.

            http://m.wikizeroo.net/index.php?q=a...V9kMTkxNC5wbmc


            You think They are innocent? Dead numbers are also lie too. They started with 50.000 and now They claim 300.000.
            Hamidiye Alayları were who were fighting against Armenian Gangs.

            In Other way It was hard to protect cities against Russian Empire and It was also Planned by German Generals in Ottoman Empire. For Example: Fritz Bronsart von Schellendorf

            It was because of Turkish-Greek Population exchange between 1923-1927. They also destroyed Mosques or Turned Mosques into Church where Turks were migrated from Greece. Look at the Thessaloniki city Where Ataturk was born back then %60 of Thessaloniki was Turkish and There were 7 Mosques but 6 of them are destroyed and 1 of them now is a Church.
            Last edited by Kulakjack; 01-14-2019, 04:39 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
              Whinning, always whinning... I'm the first saying that French have commited genocides and massacres and ethnocides, starting with the Vendéens so try again

              As for being 1 millions more crowded, I'mù laughing, France also have permited some areas to see their populations growing up like crazy, yet those people are still whinning about a so called genocide (like in Algeria, lel).

              Ps : Don't be mad and don't switch the topic to France because I point out your incoherences, or should I avoid to show you your mistake because it hurts you too much? If yes, I'm sooooo sorryyyy, I won't talk about the massacres and how Ottomans treated their colonies (because let's be honnest, it was) before the Europeans came to beat their ass. Oh shit, I did, may you never read this because I probably have broken your so little and weak heart :v
              All Happened after European Countries fixed their terriority problem in 1815 and Focused on Invading Ottoman Lands.
              Who can do Rebellion against Ottomans? Of course Arabs, Greeks, Armenians etc.

              By the way, Remember When your Country got invaded by Holy Roman Empire and Spain after Battle of Pavia and Your king begged help from Suleiman The Magnificent. Ottoman Empire sieged Vienna for intimidate Holy Roman Empire and Spain. It just lasted 17 days.
              When They didn't stop, In 1532-1533 Ottomans entered to German lands and Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor and His brother Ferdinand I were afraid to face Suleiman The Magnificent. After The war, They considered as equal to the Grand Vizier of Ottoman Empire. (Treaty of Istanbul 1533)
              It's okay too. We never refuse when somebody wants help from us.

              Avec l’aide d’Allah, le tout Puissant et Eminent Dieu ; avec la bénédiction des miracles du dernier Prophète Mohamed et avec le soutien des âmes saintes des quatre Califes ;

              Toghra [Monogramme İmpérial]
              [Soliman, le fils de Selim, toujours victorieux]

              Moi, qui suis le sultan des sultans, le souverain des souverains, le distributeur des couronnes aux monarques de la surface du globe, l’ombre de Dieu sur la terre, le sultan et le padichah de la Mer Blanche (Méditerranée), de la Mer Noire, de la Roumélie, de l’Anatolie, de la Province de Karaman, de la Province de Sivas, de la Province de Zülkadriye (Maraş), de la Province de Diyarbakir, du Kurdistan, de l’Azerbaïdjan, de la Perse (de l’Iran), de Damas, d’Alep, de l’Egypte, de Mecque, de Médine, de Jérusalem, de l’Arabie, du Yémen et de plusieurs autres contrées que mes nobles aïeux et mes illustres ancêtres conquirent par la force de leurs armes, et que mon auguste majesté a également conquises avec mon glaive flamboyant et mon sabre victorieux, sultan Suleiman-Khan (Sultan Soliman le Magnifique). Toi qui es François, le roi du pays de France. Vous avez envoyé une lettre à ma Porte, asile des souverains, par laquelle vous avez fait savoir que l’ennemi s’est emparé de votre pays, et que vous êtes actuellement en prison, et vous avez demandé ici aide et secours pour votre délivrance. Prenez donc courage, et ne vous laissez pas abattre. Il n’est pas étonnant que des empereurs soient défaits et deviennent prisonniers. Sachez que comme l’ont fait nos glorieux ancêtres et nos illustres aïeux ; moi aussi, ceint de mon sabre, je ne m’abstiens pas de faire des expéditions et des conquêtes. Je suis prêt en tout temps à guerroyer. Seule est exécutée, chose voulue par Allah. Vous apprendrez de votre agent (ambassadeur) ce que je ferais. 1526, İstanbul.
              Last edited by Kulakjack; 01-14-2019, 05:34 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post

                All Happened after European Countries fixed their terriority problem in 1815 and Focused on Invading Ottoman Lands.
                Who can do Rebellion against Ottomans? Of course Arabs, Greeks, Armenians etc.
                Oh sure, it all hapened after... For Sure Ottomans were, at that time, leading their empire very well and there was no inner troubles in Egypt with the Mamluk when France decided to invade it to counter the English and to solve the problems that French merchants had there. Sure there was also no problem when Europeans decided to invade Maghreb, the Ottomans were just abandonning the citizen s there and even encourage them to become pirates and to kidnap women from Europe. Sure, there was no problem in Ottoman empire (not talking about their army geting "old").


                As for the Ottomans helping the French, it's actually a friendship that has been made at this time and there was no really begging (François the first, even if I dislike him, was a king that care a lot about honour), and an ally to figfht the Hasburg that was a problem for both France and Ottoman empire. The friendship last for long and, during the Revolution, some people like Napoléon still had a great admiration for the empire. Yet, you compare the friendship between France and Ottoman empire when France was a kingdom... France radically changed with the Republic (because, no, the campaign of Egypt wasn't in 1815 but before, and it's the Directoire that charged the general Bonaparte (Napoléon) to go there.
                If you want to keep talking about France like your fellow citizen (which is not an example). I'd tell you that, despite the shit that Republic is in France, in brought many good things in ancient colonies of Ottoman empire. It gave Maghreb a proper place to live (that they, later, destroyed and still destroy) and a past back to the Egyptian + the whole hype around Egypt in the world.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post

                  Oh sure, it all hapened after... For Sure Ottomans were, at that time, leading their empire very well and there was no inner troubles in Egypt with the Mamluk when France decided to invade it to counter the English and to solve the problems that French merchants had there. Sure there was also no problem when Europeans decided to invade Maghreb, the Ottomans were just abandonning the citizen s there and even encourage them to become pirates and to kidnap women from Europe. Sure, there was no problem in Ottoman empire (not talking about their army geting "old&quot.
                  I meant Congress of Vienna in 1815. It kept peace of European countries for 100 years and They had opportunity to support Rebels in Ottoman Empire.
                  They are Pirates and They raided a lot of places. All Pirates do it.
                  France found opportunity to invade Algeria when Ottoman Empire was busy with Greek Rebellion and Russian war.
                  British, France and Russian Empire burnt Ottoman Navy in 1827 and It left Algeria alone in the war with France.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post

                    I meant Congress of Vienna in 1815. It kept peace of European countries for 100 years and They had opportunity to support Rebels in Ottoman Empire.
                    They are Pirates and They raided a lot of places. All Pirates do it.
                    France found opportunity to invade Algeria when Ottoman Empire was busy with Greek Rebellion and Russian war.
                    British, France and Russian Empire burnt Ottoman Navy in 1827 and It left Algeria alone in the war with France.
                    - Problems already existed before congress of Vienna, as I said.

                    - Pirates were encouraged by the Ottomans, such as the famous Barbarossa. A perfect example to claim that they were supported and encouraged by the Ottomans is the fact that Ottomans "pirates" (or corsairs to be exact) stopped attacking French ships when François the First and Suleiman the Magnificents became allied.

                    - France invaded Algerai (which didn't exist as the Algeria we know today) mostly because of those pirates and used the insults of the dey toward France as a casus belli. Ottoman empire only gave a casus belli and France would probably have won even if the Ottomans weren't busy with the Russians as you said (because, as I said, the Ottomans army was getting old at that time and France already showed a military superiority during the campaign of Egypt).

                    - 7 ships for France, 12 for England and 8 for Russia, which is 1/3 of the Ottoman fleet and which happened when the issues with North Africa already happened.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                      There wasn't Sharia against them.
                      Bullshit - there were no secular courts per se. For example, a court case between a Muslim and a Christian was tried by a Kadi - a Muslim judge. Rules of evidence were, as always, that the Muslim's evidence ranked higher than the Christian's - a very unlevel playing field.

                      Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                      In the multinational Ottoman Empire, people were divided into groups only according to their religion; nation concept in the modern sense did not exist and in this regard, the Jewish, the Armenians (Assyrian accepted as Armenians) and the Rums (Greeks) who composed nearly the half of the population lived freely until the collapse of the state without losing their identities and being forced to convert to Islam.
                      Yes, conversions to Islam were all done with the finesse of how criminal gangsters do business with "outsiders" and even turn a few into part of the gang. Firstly, the social playing field was very uneven for those who are not members of the gang - such as the Islamic court system with its highly explict biases against Nonmuslims. Secondly, only Nonmuslim women were permitted to marry Muslims. A Nonmuslim man had to convert to Islam to marry a Muslim women - so the demographic dice were loaded cultist-style.

                      And of course, who could ever forget the kidnapping of small boys by the Ottomans to be brainwashed into Islam converts and turned into Jannisaries...

                      Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                      In the Ottoman Empire, non-Muslim groups benefited from the protection of the Islamic law due to the Treaty of Zimmet. (Dhimmi)
                      Protection racket.

                      Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                      Well, Actually This Census was maiden by Frenchs.
                      Bullshit. These are not French statistics gathered by French statisticians - they are reporting of official Ottoman statistics.

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1914_p...Ottoman_Empire

                      Funny enough - these statistics themselves are rubbery and dodgy on account of an explicit policy in the Ottoman Court to deliberately omit the Ecclesiastical births and deaths from the statistical figures - i.e. Christian population statistics of high relevance to the integrity of the census. Seems that the Ottomans had already had in place some sort of policy regarding the "demographics" of the Ottoman Empire's Christian population even before the start of WW1 and were already putting some sort of coverup in place

                      Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                      Also Churches in Christian villages Baptize the people and Record their names. It's impossible to hide their religions especially after Ottoman Reform Edict of 1856.
                      You have only given us a graph written in French. By the way, I read French - it is merely putting into graph form the official statistics of the Ottomans.

                      Still, the page you had offered shows us that the official name for the city which is known now as Istanbul was back in 1914 called Constantinople

                      Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                      You think They are innocent? Dead numbers are also lie too. They started with 50.000 and now They claim 300.000.
                      Hamidiye Alayları were who were fighting against Armenian Gangs.
                      Seems you are pulling this 50 000 number out of your arse...

                      In any case, it doesn't ultimately matter if it were 50 000 or 300 000 - the intent for mass murder of the genocidal form has been well established among Ottomans even before WW1 in an event about 20 years prior to the genocide that started in 1915.

                      And of course while fighting these "gangs", women were in the way and got raped and murdered or forcibly converted to Islam, children were distracting the fight and got murdered

                      Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                      In Other way It was hard to protect cities against Russian Empire and It was also Planned by German Generals in Ottoman Empire. For Example: Fritz Bronsart von Schellendorf
                      I seriously doubt that Fritz Bronsart von Schellendorf was the actual instigator of the Armenian genocide as guessed at by several Armenian historians. Ultimately, Fritz Bronsart von Schellendorf was under the control of Enver Pasha - and Enver Pasha was the one calling the shots about who was to be the Ottoman military chief of staff. For example, the German general who ultimately was leading the Gallipoli campaign in 1915 for the Ottomans, Otto Liman von Sanders, was removed as chief of staff by Enver Pasha and sent west just prior to the Gallipoli campaign. Perhaps von Sanders was not up for the mass-murdering that Enver Pasha had in mind????

                      Most likely, it was Enver Pasha who was the one very much in charge of the operations to genocide Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks:

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Pasha

                      Still, Fritz Bronsart von Schellendorf had the sort of personality which would have been up for mass-murder on command - later on he was an ardent supporter of the Nazis.

                      Fun fact about many future important Nazis by the way - many of them served in the Ottoman Empire during WW1:

                      https://books.google.bg/books?id=nHI...;q&f=false

                      Lots of familiar big Nazi names working with the Ottomans during WW1 - von Pappen, von Seeckt and von Hoess the commandant of Auschwitz.

                      A really interesting name is Dr Max von Scheubner Richter. He had been the German vice-counsel in Erzurum and someone who had written a large number of reports about Ottoman massacres of Armenians in Erzurum. He had been with Hitler as early as 1920, a close confident of Hitler and was one of those killed during Hitler's attempted putsch in 1923. His reports sent back to Germany on the Armenian massacres were excited and very positive about the whole process conducted by The Ottomans. Ironically, these reports form one of many important pieces of evidence that conclusively point to genocide by the Ottoman Turks.

                      "Coincidentally", many Nazis after WW2 converted to Islam...

                      Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                      It was because of Turkish-Greek Population exchange between 1923-1927. They also destroyed Mosques or Turned Mosques into Church where Turks were migrated from Greece. Look at the Thessaloniki city Where Ataturk was born back then %60 of Thessaloniki was Turkish and There were 7 Mosques but 6 of them are destroyed and 1 of them now is a Church.
                      Oh, a tu quoque here - so the Greeks destroying some mosques in Thessaloniki makes it alright that the Ottomans and the successor Turkish state were destroying countless Armenian, Greek and Assyrian churches in Asia Minor?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by aussieinbg View Post

                        Bullshit - there were no secular courts per se. For example, a court case between a Muslim and a Christian was tried by a Kadi - a Muslim judge. Rules of evidence were, as always, that the Muslim's evidence ranked higher than the Christian's - a very unlevel playing field.



                        Yes, conversions to Islam were all done with the finesse of how criminal gangsters do business with "outsiders" and even turn a few into part of the gang. Firstly, the social playing field was very uneven for those who are not members of the gang - such as the Islamic court system with its highly explict biases against Nonmuslims. Secondly, only Nonmuslim women were permitted to marry Muslims. A Nonmuslim man had to convert to Islam to marry a Muslim women - so the demographic dice were loaded cultist-style.

                        And of course, who could ever forget the kidnapping of small boys by the Ottomans to be brainwashed into Islam converts and turned into Jannisaries...



                        Protection racket.


                        Seems you are pulling this 50 000 number out of your arse...

                        In any case, it doesn't ultimately matter if it were 50 000 or 300 000 - the intent for mass murder of the genocidal form has been well established among Ottomans even before WW1 in an event about 20 years prior to the genocide that started in 1915.

                        And of course while fighting these "gangs", women were in the way and got raped and murdered or forcibly converted to Islam, children were distracting the fight and got murdered



                        I seriously doubt that Fritz Bronsart von Schellendorf was the actual instigator of the Armenian genocide as guessed at by several Armenian historians. Ultimately, Fritz Bronsart von Schellendorf was under the control of Enver Pasha - and Enver Pasha was the one calling the shots about who was to be the Ottoman military chief of staff. For example, the German general who ultimately was leading the Gallipoli campaign in 1915 for the Ottomans, Otto Liman von Sanders, was removed as chief of staff by Enver Pasha and sent west just prior to the Gallipoli campaign. Perhaps von Sanders was not up for the mass-murdering that Enver Pasha had in mind????

                        Most likely, it was Enver Pasha who was the one very much in charge of the operations to genocide Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks:

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Pasha

                        Still, Fritz Bronsart von Schellendorf had the sort of personality which would have been up for mass-murder on command - later on he was an ardent supporter of the Nazis.

                        Fun fact about many future important Nazis by the way - many of them served in the Ottoman Empire during WW1:

                        https://books.google.bg/books?id=nHI...;q&f=false

                        Lots of familiar big Nazi names working with the Ottomans during WW1 - von Pappen, von Seeckt and von Hoess the commandant of Auschwitz.

                        A really interesting name is Dr Max von Scheubner Richter. He had been the German vice-counsel in Erzurum and someone who had written a large number of reports about Ottoman massacres of Armenians in Erzurum. He had been with Hitler as early as 1920, a close confident of Hitler and was one of those killed during Hitler's attempted putsch in 1923. His reports sent back to Germany on the Armenian massacres were excited and very positive about the whole process conducted by The Ottomans. Ironically, these reports form one of many important pieces of evidence that conclusively point to genocide by the Ottoman Turks.

                        "Coincidentally", many Nazis after WW2 converted to Islam...



                        Oh, a tu quoque here - so the Greeks destroying some mosques in Thessaloniki makes it alright that the Ottomans and the successor Turkish state were destroying countless Armenian, Greek and Assyrian churches in Asia Minor?
                        They get judged by Christian Rules.

                        Lol This is what the West teachs you.
                        Devshirme System was for build an army and educate Sciencist, Architect, Commanders, Soldiers and Grand Viziers in Ottoman Empire. They gain a lot of money too. There are a lot of examples of it.
                        Devshirme System was removed in 1826 because Ottoman Empire created Modern Army in Modern Military Schools. Where They learn from Geography to Physics, From Physics to Foreign Languages. There were also a lot of Christian soldiers who got education there.
                        There are also ones who converted to Islam and didn't get assimilated as you imagine in your mind.
                        Look at Osman Hamdi Bey (Greek Muslim) He opened Industry School in Istanbul in 1868 and He opened Istanbul Archeology museum too.
                        He was a Painter and Archeologist.

                        Armenian Gangs were doing it since We were fighting with Russian Empire in the east side.
                        This is also what the West teachs you.
                        30.000 Pkk Terrorists have been Dead. I am sure The west also shows them like innocent People.
                        There are 15.000.000 Muslim Kurds in Turkey and They live in the best cities of Turkey. We have no problem with them.
                        I am sure Germany tries to find a Crime partner for what They did in WW2 but Turkey is definetely not!

                        I meant The Population Exchange between 1923-1927! Greeks from Anatolia went to Greece and Turks of Greece went to Anatolia.
                        When They went There was no one that was about to pray in Mosques/Churches. (Both sides accepted it. Population Exchange doesn't happen in one side.)
                        By the way, 200.000 Karamans (Christian Turks) had to went to Greece too.
                        After 100 years They must be 1.500.000 Million at least 1.000.000 Million. Where are They now?

                        They speak Karaman Dialect. (Turkish written in Greek Alphabet)

                        Karaman Grave Stone:
                        https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...8ffd4ecb794209

                        The text in Latin Characters.
                        In Karaman: Pu mezarta sakin nigde karyesiden ilosonlu mehanenji savva zevtjesi violeem yiatior. Allah rahmet eilesin.

                        In Turkish: Bu mezarda sakin niğde karyesinden ilosonlu meyhaneci savva zevcesi violeem yatıyor. Allah rahmet eylesin.

                        In English: In This Grave Wife of Tavern Owner Savva from Niğde, Karyesi sleeps. God rest his soul.

                        Karamans are Part of Turkish people who settled in Anatolia before 1071 had accepted Christianity and learned Hellenic script. Thus, They have generated a literature with this script. Turkish people who lived in Anatolia and didn’t know any other language except Turkish and members of the Eastern Orthodox Church are called Karaman Turks or Karamans. It has been understood that Seljuks and Ottomans have not interference to their religion. Besides literature, Karaman Turks have been used Hellenic scripts on house appliances, gravestones, religional and civilian structures. Turkish inscriptions that typing Hellenic script are so important in terms of Turkish language, culture and history.
                        Last edited by Kulakjack; 01-15-2019, 06:07 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                          They get judged by Christian Rules.
                          When getting judged against another Christian.

                          Even at trial for something substantial such as murder, if there were a Christian on trial for the murder of another Christian, then this would be judged according to Sharia.

                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...Ottoman_Empire

                          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                          Lol This is what the West teachs you.
                          Given that people like Erdogan have fake university degrees and that a huge proportion of academic theses are plagiarised pieces of shit:

                          http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/pla...ademia--101141

                          then I'll take my chances on the Western education system delivering far more truth about history and other matters than the Turkish one.

                          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                          Devshirme System was for build an army and educate Sciencist, Architect, Commanders, Soldiers and Grand Viziers in Ottoman Empire. They gain a lot of money too. There are a lot of examples of it.
                          So?

                          If you happened to have had the misfortune of being born into peadophile Muhammad's death cult during the Ottoman Empire, you would have spent a huge proportion of your childhood education learning by rote tedious boring shit such as Quran Suras. This is not the sort of thing that produces individuals who can think and develop and invent things.

                          Throughout the history of the Ottoman Empire, there was a need to use Nonmuslims in positions where thinking and initiative was required. That the Ottoman Empire required the services of Nonmuslim German generals during WW1 is a perfect example of this. Commanders showing initiative such as Ataturk identifying nominally as "Muslim" were in fact closet Atheists.

                          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                          Devshirme System was removed in 1826 because Ottoman Empire created Modern Army in Modern Military Schools. Where They learn from Geography to Physics, From Physics to Foreign Languages. There were also a lot of Christian soldiers who got education there.
                          After The Ottomans after 1856 were forced to accept Nonmuslims as soldiers.... This was following the turnaround of the Russians previously forced to endure slave raids by Ottomans and Islamic friends then The Ottomans dealing with Russia on the ascent while the Ottoman Empire decayed into a complete shithole like all regions under Islamic rule do.

                          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                          There are also ones who converted to Islam and didn't get assimilated as you imagine in your mind.
                          Look at Osman Hamdi Bey (Greek Muslim) He opened Industry School in Istanbul in 1868 and He opened Istanbul Archeology museum too.
                          He was a Painter and Archeologist.
                          So? Just one cherry-picked example...

                          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                          Armenian Gangs were doing it since We were fighting with Russian Empire in the east side.
                          And using this "justification" of "fighting Armenian 'gangs' " when, meanwhile, many hundreds of kilometres from the Russian/Ottoman front lines hundreds of thousands of Armenians were getting murdered, raped or forced into marriage and conversion into Islam...

                          So, it was because of these "Armenian gangs" that Assyrians and Greeks were also getting mass-murdered by the Ottomans? Bullshit like you had written gets very easily caught out...

                          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                          This is also what the West teachs you.
                          30.000 Pkk Terrorists have been Dead. I am sure The west also shows them like innocent People.
                          Turkish actions such as destroying literally thousands of Kurdish villages in the East make the PKK look much better than they really are.

                          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                          There are 15.000.000 Muslim Kurds in Turkey and They live in the best cities of Turkey. We have no problem with them.
                          In cities... because of ethnic cleansing of Kurds in the countryside of eastern Anatolia

                          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                          I am sure Germany tries to find a Crime partner for what They did in WW2 but Turkey is definetely not!
                          You're trying as a fallback measure to set up Germany as the instigator of the Armenian genocide during WW1.... The evidence is very overwhelming that The Ottomans pursued a long-term genocidal policy against Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians so of course you would want to put the blame on someone else...

                          What's the next piece of shit that you will serve up? That Turanists were a German Empire conspiracy?

                          Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                          I meant The Population Exchange between 1923-1927! Greeks from Anatolia went to Greece and Turks of Greece went to Anatolia.
                          When They went There was no one that was about to pray in Mosques/Churches. (Both sides accepted it. Population Exchange doesn't happen in one side.)
                          By the way, 200.000 Karamans (Christian Turks) had to went to Greece too.
                          After 100 years They must be 1.500.000 Million at least 1.000.000 Million. Where are They now?
                          They speak Karaman Dialect. (Turkish written in Greek Alphabet)
                          Karaman Grave Stone:
                          https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...8ffd4ecb794209
                          The text in Latin Characters.
                          In Karaman: Pu mezarta sakin nigde karyesiden ilosonlu mehanenji savva zevtjesi violeem yiatior. Allah rahmet eilesin.
                          In Turkish: Bu mezarda sakin niğde karyesinden ilosonlu meyhaneci savva zevcesi violeem yatıyor. Allah rahmet eylesin.
                          In English: In This Grave Wife of Tavern Owner Savva from Niğde, Karyesi sleeps. God rest his soul.
                          Karamans are Part of Turkish people who settled in Anatolia before 1071 had accepted Christianity and learned Hellenic script. Thus, They have generated a literature with this script. Turkish people who lived in Anatolia and didn’t know any other language except Turkish and members of the Eastern Orthodox Church are called Karaman Turks or Karamans. It has been understood that Seljuks and Ottomans have not interference to their religion. Besides literature, Karaman Turks have been used Hellenic scripts on house appliances, gravestones, religional and civilian structures. Turkish inscriptions that typing Hellenic script are so important in terms of Turkish language, culture and history.
                          Really irrelevant what the Greeks were doing to Turks when discussing the Ottoman genocides of Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks. It could even be said that Greek actions are a reaction to what Muslim Turks pulling the strings in the Ottoman Empire were doing... But that does not excuse them. Nevertheless, you love what the Greeks have done - it's a potential escape for you from having to confront the genocidal actions of the Ottomans you are presently fanboying for.

                          You are trying to escape the reality that your beloved Ottomans were just a bunch of genocidal murderers... who were following the cult of a peadophile rapist, thief, murderer and liar. Pursuing a policy of genocide against Nonmuslim groups after all was merely following Muhammad's sunnah on such matters...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by aussieinbg View Post


                            So?

                            If you happened to have had the misfortune of being born into peadophile Muhammad's death cult during the Ottoman Empire, you would have spent a huge proportion of your childhood education learning by rote tedious boring shit such as Quran Suras. This is not the sort of thing that produces individuals who can think and develop and invent things.

                            Throughout the history of the Ottoman Empire, there was a need to use Nonmuslims in positions where thinking and initiative was required. That the Ottoman Empire required the services of Nonmuslim German generals during WW1 is a perfect example of this. Commanders showing initiative such as Ataturk identifying nominally as "Muslim" were in fact closet Atheists.



                            After The Ottomans after 1856 were forced to accept Nonmuslims as soldiers.... This was following the turnaround of the Russians previously forced to endure slave raids by Ottomans and Islamic friends then The Ottomans dealing with Russia on the ascent while the Ottoman Empire decayed into a complete shithole like all regions under Islamic rule do.



                            So? Just one cherry-picked example...



                            And using this "justification" of "fighting Armenian 'gangs' " when, meanwhile, many hundreds of kilometres from the Russian/Ottoman front lines hundreds of thousands of Armenians were getting murdered, raped or forced into marriage and conversion into Islam...

                            So, it was because of these "Armenian gangs" that Assyrians and Greeks were also getting mass-murdered by the Ottomans? Bullshit like you had written gets very easily caught out...



                            Turkish actions such as destroying literally thousands of Kurdish villages in the East make the PKK look much better than they really are.



                            In cities... because of ethnic cleansing of Kurds in the countryside of eastern Anatolia



                            You're trying as a fallback measure to set up Germany as the instigator of the Armenian genocide during WW1.... The evidence is very overwhelming that The Ottomans pursued a long-term genocidal policy against Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians so of course you would want to put the blame on someone else...

                            What's the next piece of shit that you will serve up? That Turanists were a German Empire conspiracy?



                            Really irrelevant what the Greeks were doing to Turks when discussing the Ottoman genocides of Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks. It could even be said that Greek actions are a reaction to what Muslim Turks pulling the strings in the Ottoman Empire were doing... But that does not excuse them. Nevertheless, you love what the Greeks have done - it's a potential escape for you from having to confront the genocidal actions of the Ottomans you are presently fanboying for.

                            You are trying to escape the reality that your beloved Ottomans were just a bunch of genocidal murderers... who were following the cult of a peadophile rapist, thief, murderer and liar. Pursuing a policy of genocide against Nonmuslim groups after all was merely following Muhammad's sunnah on such matters...
                            Well, I see You have really serious problems caused by Turcophobia and Islamophobia.
                            I am not trying to escape from something. But on a serious note, all you have wrote is absolutely exaggerated.
                            There is no massacre against Kurdish people, If There is, how in the hell There are still 15 million Kurds in Turkey?
                            They come to West cities of Turkey by their react and nobody punishs them.

                            I don't deny Islam was in the first foreground in Ottoman Empire. Turks brought Justice to where They went and Ruled with Justice. They didn't get kids If Their Family wasn't agreeable. There were even a lot of Greeks who were in Good Situation when They were Christians in Greece, Anatolia, Istanbul, Izmir, etc. If They weren't agreeable then the kids who been Janissaries would revolt easily. Ottomans were choosing one kid in every 40 families. If Devshirme was like as you imagine. Everybody would be Muslim in Ottoman Empire.

                            Old Greek Neighbourhood in Istanbul: http://m.wikizeroo.net/index.php?q=a...bmFyaW9uLmpwZw

                            Old Greek-Turkish Neighbourdhood in İzmir: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zK37yyH5yKUR-U

                            http://admin.agos.com.tr/upload/habe...yrina_1615.jpg

                            Ottoman Empire accepted lots of Polish-Hungarian-Italian immigrants too. (There a lot of Christian Pashas who are Italian, Polish and Hungarian.
                            Also Adam Mickiewicz national poet of Poland lived in Istanbul too.)
                            and It left Ottoman Empire in Hard Situation with Austria and Russia.
                            even Today, Polish people have village in Istanbul called "Polonezköy". We never refuse when somebody wants help from us.

                            It's memorial for Polish people who live in Polonezköy:
                            https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...anbul_6256.jpg

                            This is Polish catholic Church in Polonezköy: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...anbul_6257.jpg

                            It's Polish festival: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...8883_nevit.jpg

                            There is even German Protestan Church in Istanbul: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i..._RENruVmVUPu3A


                            Yes, Of course There are other examples: Balyan Family (Armenian Family, They were principal architect of Ottoman Empire.)

                            Monument for their grave in Istanbul Armenian Graveyard: http://m.wikizeroo.net/index.php?q=a...WV6YXJfMi5qcGc

                            Hormzud Rassam (Assyrian Archeologist), Marko Pitsipios (Greek Doctor) etc.

                            Okay There happened bad things between 1914-1918 with Armenians but Turkey had to do this for protect Turks and Kurds. RELOCATION ISN'T A GENOCIDE! and before that There was not genocide against them too.
                            If the genocide started then, There would have been no Greeks left to invade Turkey in 1919 and no Armenians left to Attack Turkish villages and Soldiers when Turkish soldiers were in war. (Ottoman Empire had 500 years time to do it but They are still Christian and Speak their language.)
                            Also, Armenian Relocation is happened in Turkey. Not in France, England or US.... so only Turkish Archives know it better. If you go to Ottoman Archives, You will not even write bullshit things that are non based and totally bullshit.


                            There are a lot of things in the World History like that. Do you really think the Greeks are innocent? The Byzantines forced people to convert to Orthodoxy, They tried to destroy the culture of Anatolia and they colonized it, they committed war crimes during the Turkish war of independence (most notably the Yalova Peninsula massacres) which killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims, etc......
                            The British killed 150 million people in total in massacres and genocides, Nazi Germany killed more than 11 million, the Soviet Union killed 50 million and attempted to destroy religion, China killed countless, etc.....

                            Turkey is not an exception here. Stop acting like it is.
                            Last edited by Kulakjack; 01-16-2019, 07:53 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                              Turkey is not an exception here. Stop acting like it is.
                              Turkey is an exception because it is a nation who denies its atrocities, points with the fingers only to others and glorifies its past...like you are giving an almost perfect example.
                              It is a huge step forward that you are able to admit:

                              Originally posted by Kulakjack View Post
                              Okay There happened bad things between 1914-1918 with Armenians
                              This is something no Turk before you in this forum was able to admit. And you might get problems with your brothers for saying this. In any case none of them will agree with you.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Suna123 View Post

                                Turkey is an exception because it is a nation who denies its atrocities, points with the fingers only to others and glorifies its past...like you are giving an almost perfect example.
                                It is a huge step forward that you are able to admit:



                                This is something no Turk before you in this forum was able to admit. And you might get problems with your brothers for saying this. In any case none of them will agree with you.
                                I don't admit anything. There happened bad things but It still doesn't change that I don't recognize this lie.
                                Turkey had to do this for protect Kurds and Turks. Relocation isn't a genocide and Yes, We have Great History and We always bring Justice to where We went and I am proud of it.
                                Last edited by Kulakjack; 01-16-2019, 07:42 PM.

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