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  • #76
    Originally posted by LynneMK View Post
    I'm reading some of these posts, and I'm seeing some say that being a stay at home wife (I do not like the term house wife, I didn't marry the house) means that she doesnt grow intellectually etc.
    ....
    As to becoming stagnant intellectually, I spend more time research, studying various topics as I have more time to do so. I also spend more time reading it's a falsehood that homemakers are stagnant intellectually.
    I said that the majority of housewifes end up with a limited mind in a limited world. I did not say all. I know that development is possible while being at home as well. However, this requires a high amount of intrinsical power what most people don't have. This is the observation I made among the women staying at home for a long time I know personally. (those with a mini-job like 10 hours a week are often not better).

    Originally posted by LynneMK View Post
    I used to think I could work and raise the kids and take care of the family, but the hectic Ness of getting home, making dinner, running kids to their activities, helping with schoolwork, left me too tired to spend time with my husband.
    Each family is different and has different realities. With the things you mention I don't have stress and hectic at all (anymore).
    We cook everyday - alternating.
    Our kids run alone to their activities and friends because it is all close by
    They don't need help with homework since they are teenagers already (and very good at school)

    Originally posted by LynneMK View Post
    You get what you invest in.
    Yes - and it surely is a dangerous path each family must decide for themselves where to go.
    In dir muß brennen, was du in anderen entzünden willst. What you wish to kindle in others must burn within yourself. [Aurelius]

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Hades91 View Post

      Eleganckie laski takich głupot nie robią, bo wiedzą kim są i co mają. To jest raczej domena tych średniaczek które myślą że takie oszpecenie zrobi je atrakcyjniejsze. 10/10 dziewczyna nie potrzebuje takich ozdób bo ma dosyć swoich naturalnych atutów które dają jej pozytywną uwagę innych osób.

      The full time housewife isn't something what you will see often here. I don't have one among my friends and family, after 3 years maternity leave and sometimes earlier all women who i know went to work, because of money. Kids are often by the grandma or in kindergarten. Some of them work only 6 hours, because of kids.
      The next point in our country there is no tradition for housewife life style. Earlier in communism everybody was obliged to have a job and kindergartens were for free from 6-18 clock. Even if i grow up in the west, i was in kindergarten the most time instead on my parents butts. I think kindergarten is especially for single kids the much better option.
      Tatuaże to plaga ogólnie i po tym co widzę robią je coraz ładniejsze dziewczyny, nie było kiedyś tak.

      As for the rest, I agree, that's why probably I don't have much problem with the fact whether my woman is going to work or wants to take care of the house. Even though I'm quite traditional person, for that I just don't care

      http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100803203515

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      • #78
        Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
        Oh my....the feminazis here are not gonna like you!
        Lynne is here for a long time and we like her for her thoughtful posts. I don't know if feminazis like her since there are none here.
        In dir muß brennen, was du in anderen entzünden willst. What you wish to kindle in others must burn within yourself. [Aurelius]

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
          I'm mostly using humour when dealing with the rest of you.
          I'm not a native English speakers, but I can say for sure that there is no humour between the insulting lines of your posts in this thread.

          Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
          I think the difference between these ladies and you European women is one of attitude. You dismiss the importance of motherhood in a child's life and you complain about the difficulties of getting back into the workforce after raising your children.
          and you keep going - boastful and patronizing - not funny honey. As a European woman I would rather talk to a Canadian lady instead of a Canadian macho.
          Truth is that you dismiss the importance of fatherhood in a childs life and come with cheap excuses about holes in male CV's. Cry me a river.


          In dir muß brennen, was du in anderen entzünden willst. What you wish to kindle in others must burn within yourself. [Aurelius]

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

            While Lauri truly deserves all the negative things people say about him, I'm mostly using humour when dealing with the rest of you. Either you're humourless or this form of communication leaves out a lot of information one would normally get through a face-to-face interaction. Since I don't believe any of you is humourless (except Lauri) that leaves this imperfect form of communication + cultural differences + preconceived ideas responsible for miscommunication. The Neanderthal/Nederlander comment was meant as humour but it's likely that your prejudices towards me made you see it as an insult.



            There are too many replies on this thread so I don't read every one. If the reply sounds like whining or complaining, I skip over it. Sometimes the reply is too long... I treat replies like I used to treat CVs: those that don't attract me I dismiss without ceremony.

            If a woman returns to work after a long absence, it is normal that she will have to get up to date. This is true whether she's a cashier in a store or a medical doctor. The women I know here are mostly in the medical professions and they all took years off work to raise their children and they all returned to the workforce and are doing something similar to what they were doing before. I think the difference between these ladies and you European women is one of attitude. You dismiss the importance of motherhood in a child's life and you complain about the difficulties of getting back into the workforce after raising your children.

            ..and - LOL - you say with a straight face that a man with a 7 year hole in his CV is going to be treated equally as a woman with the same 7 year hole.
            This last point is especially ridiculous but I put it down to overzealous idealism.

            While I don't know what Lauri did wrong to you guys, he seemed like an okay guy to me. I hope your constant bullying isn't going to scare him away, as he seems to be one of the few reasonable people on here.

            I do think though that long comments are often better than short ones full of insults and with a lack of nuance. In my opinion, if I would have a child, I would like to emphasize the importance of PARENThood. By teaching the child that if I am not there his/her father will. That his/her father can also do household chores just as much as his/her mother can go out for work. And that preferably you do those things together. I don't think it is a lack of attitude. It may be a different attitude than that of the women you know, but I don't believe one is better than the other.

            Also, why am I even discussing with a guy who says with a straight face that a seven year hole is not going to be a problem and that you can easily learn professional skills by sitting at home and who says 1800€ is a really low income... Speaking about overzealous idealism.
            La tête en bas et les pieds en l'air ! Oh lÃ* lÃ* !

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

              Oh my....the feminazis here are not gonna like you!

              First, I didn't see any feminazis in this thread. I never saw any "feminazi" in my entire life even. Advocating about equal rights has nothing with Nazism. I suggest all those who use this stupid term to go back to school and to learn about Nazism. Then come back and tell me how a movement which never killed anyone equals one that killed millions of people, many of them on the basis of racist ideas about inequality. Also, side note: in Nazi ideology women were supposed to stay at home with a bunch of kids.

              Secondly, LynneMK apparently made this choice out of her own free will. From what I got, she thought this choice was best for her and for children, I didn't see anywhere in her post something like "I stay at home because I am a woman". It is not a choice I would make, I guess. But really, if you're really a feminist, you're in favour of choice. And that choice may entail staying at home. As long as that is a CHOICE, that is fine.
              La tête en bas et les pieds en l'air ! Oh lÃ* lÃ* !

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Suna123 View Post
                Truth is that you dismiss the importance of fatherhood in a childs life and come with cheap excuses about holes in male CV's. Cry me a river.

                I'm dismissing fatherhood now?! LOL Ridiculous! If you read some of my older posts on this thread (you won't) you'll see that I lamented the current state of affairs where men abandon their wives and children...

                So your comment is more aimed at insulting me than anything else....so I can't take your post seriously.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by LadyJosh View Post

                  .. In my opinion, if I would have a child, I would like to emphasize the importance of PARENThood. By teaching the child that if I am not there his/her father will. That his/her father can also do household chores just as much as his/her mother can go out for work. And that preferably you do those things together. I don't think it is a lack of attitude. It may be a different attitude than that of the women you know, but I don't believe one is better than the other.

                  Also, why am I even discussing with a guy who says with a straight face that a seven year hole is not going to be a problem and that you can easily learn professional skills by sitting at home and who says 1800€ is a really low income... Speaking about overzealous idealism.
                  LOL...like Suna123 you assume I think the father's role in a child's life is unimportant? Your own prejudice towards me created this idea in your mind..

                  All I said was that a 7 year hole in a man's CV is suspect. I would immediately think "prison" or that he's some sort of spiritual fruitcake. Like it or not, it's harder to explain for a man. If he told me that he took the time off to raise his children while his wife went to work, that MIGHT work but I would ask more questions to someone who strays from the norm. When I hired the former inmate, do you think I just said, "Fine! You've paid your debt to society and everything is perfect!" Of course not...anyone who has a profile that is out of the ordinary will be subject to more scrutiny. That's just the way things are.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by LadyJosh View Post

                    1. We were never friends to begin with. 2. I'll buy my own cookies because I have a f*cking job.

                    I can't believe I am actually stupid enough to reply to is in a serious way, because you are just trolling, but here we go... Appearance is not unimportant, I agree with that. It seems to be statistically proven that obesity for example can make it harder to find a job. I read that if there are two candidates with similar profiles, things such as clothes or looks can make the difference. Does that mean that women who get a job are just chosen because of how fuckable they look? I doubt it. Things such as knowing how to choose the right clothing for the occasion, looking clean and like you care a little bit are important at work, just as much as knowing how to present yourself, how to talk, etc. So far, I agree, for both men and women. That being a pretty young woman may help you in jobs where you have a lot of contact with clients, such as in sales, is also something I can believe.

                    However, I don't think that is sufficiant. I don't know where you did your internship, but in the jobs I had I never had much contact with people other than my colleagues. If you're just sitting in front of your computer all day, I don't think looks are going to help you. Most companies don't have money for useless expenditures, so they want someone who is efficient and productive. Also, HR is a department with oftenly way more women than men. Don't tell me they are going to choose women depending on how fuckable they are? I think that looking overly sexy can cause recruiters to have some prejudices about you, rather than that you will be hired for it... Also, your internship is just one example. In my previous job, there were slightly more men than women. In my current job, it is about 50/50 (maybe slightly more women), but the average age is well above 25.

                    The real issue with your post is that it is really hurtful. Women have the same capabilities as men. They have worked for their degree just as hard, they've taken up internships just as much, they've tried just as hard. To be told then that that all doesn't matter and that you were just hired because of your looks and that, in ten years, you can just as well stay at home, is just denying all the hard work someone has put in getting that job. Looks are maybe an advantage, but if you are doing a job where you actually need some skills it is not going to be enough.
                    I would just like to add that most of HR people are women, so sexiness doesn't really help xD

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
                      I'm dismissing fatherhood now?! LOL Ridiculous! If you read some of my older posts on this thread (you won't) you'll see that I lamented the current state of affairs where men abandon their wives and children...
                      I don't need to reread it, my memory is quite fine. But maybe to help your memory what you wrote on page one:

                      Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
                      The current model has produced a crop of irresponsible men who leave their wives/girlfriends when things get difficult. They not only hurt the women they once promised to love, they hurt their children as well, not to mention the social costs
                      You write here that boys who grew up with the "current model" [= working mothers] end up being irresponsible men leaving their wifes. What is bullshit from start to end. Like I already wrote earlier is, that it is much more common that women are the ones who leave the men. And you didn't mention anywhere in this thread in the slightest that fathers have responsibilities other than economically. You are only worried about holes in male CV's. Thats hypocritical to no end.

                      Of course it is hard with a hole in a CV to get back to work - but how about minimizing this hole for both parents by sharing? Or how about working parttime both? Then nobody has a hole in the CV. Even in this really paternalistic Germany here are already many men taking (small) parts of parental leave and some even work parttime to give their wifes a fair chance for their job.

                      In dir muß brennen, was du in anderen entzünden willst. What you wish to kindle in others must burn within yourself. [Aurelius]

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

                        LOL...like Suna123 you assume I think the father's role in a child's life is unimportant? Your own prejudice towards me created this idea in your mind..

                        All I said was that a 7 year hole in a man's CV is suspect. I would immediately think "prison" or that he's some sort of spiritual fruitcake. Like it or not, it's harder to explain for a man. If he told me that he took the time off to raise his children while his wife went to work, that MIGHT work but I would ask more questions to someone who strays from the norm. When I hired the former inmate, do you think I just said, "Fine! You've paid your debt to society and everything is perfect!" Of course not...anyone who has a profile that is out of the ordinary will be subject to more scrutiny. That's just the way things are.

                        Oh dear, I should never have started on the example of my male friend because apparently it has become your only argument. Okay, like I said, I grant you, there ARE double standards. It will be weirder for a man to have that kind of hole in his CV than for a woman. But that doesn't mean it is easy for a woman. A woman can indeed more easily play on the fact she cared for her children. Maybe the employer won't think that she is a former inmate or any other real red flag. But that doesn't mean that having stayed at home is actually desirable for an employer either.

                        And about the father's role in the child's life. Well, I will quote your first post in this thread, which started this whole discussion:

                        If a couple plans on having children, it is always better for the mother to stay at home and raise their children rather than paying someone else to do it. Always. The odds are that the marriage will be better and the children won't turn out as flunkies. History is a witness to that. There will always be time for the mother to work when the children get to a certain age and become independent. A single mother has a much more difficult time emotionally and financially in raising her children. They may very well turn out to be decent individuals but it will be at a great personal cost to her.
                        I am refering to this sentence. You specifically talk about THE MOTHER. And if the mother is working you suggest that someone else has to be paid for it. There is no mention of the father. See what I meant by being inconsistent? As Suna said, there are even so many mid ways. I know couples who both work 4 days, so that out of five work days the child is cared for by a parent 2 days. That leaves only 3 days out of 7 when it goes to grandparents or a babysitter, while both parents can have a fulfilling job and enough money to spend. Unfortunately, it is still a little difficult for men to not work full time and many employers won't accept, but it is certainly a more realistic plan than suggesting you'll find a job easily after having been out of work for 7 years.
                        Last edited by LadyJosh; 07-07-2017, 04:53 PM.
                        La tête en bas et les pieds en l'air ! Oh lÃ* lÃ* !

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Suna123 View Post

                          I don't need to reread it, my memory is quite fine. But maybe to help your memory what you wrote on page one:



                          You write here that boys who grew up with the "current model" [= working mothers] end up being irresponsible men leaving their wifes. What is bullshit from start to end. Like I already wrote earlier is, that it is much more common that women are the ones who leave the men. And you didn't mention anywhere in this thread in the slightest that fathers have responsibilities other than economically. You are only worried about holes in male CV's. Thats hypocritical to no end.

                          Of course it is hard with a hole in a CV to get back to work - but how about minimizing this hole for both parents by sharing? Or how about working parttime both? Then nobody has a hole in the CV. Even in this really paternalistic Germany here are already many men taking (small) parts of parental leave and some even work parttime to give their wifes a fair chance for their job.
                          Do you have trouble understanding English? Read the paragraph of mine you quoted and tell me where I said that "working mothers" created the current model?! What an sensless interpretation! Go back and read it again. I was talking about men abandoning their wives/girlfriends along with their children. The current modeI was talking about is far, far more complex than women going to work. Again, your prejudice is thinking for you.

                          I don't care about holes in CVs. They exist and they have to be explained. It is more difficult for a man to explain a hole in his CV than it is for a woman. Will I have to repeat this FACT many times more before you accept it as a simple declaration of how things are? or do you want to continue with your fantasy that we are all equal in this regard?


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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by LadyJosh View Post

                            Oh dear, I should never have started on the example of my male friend because apparently it has become your only argument. Okay, like I said, I grant you, there ARE double standards. It will be weirder for a man to have that kind of hole in his CV than for a woman. But that doesn't mean it is easy for a woman. A woman can indeed more easily play on the fact she cared for her children. Maybe the employer won't think that she is a former inmate or any other real red flag. But that doesn't mean that having stayed at home is actually desirable for an employer either.
                            Your friend? Sorry, I don't remember reading about your friend, so I can guarantee you that he's neither a plus or a minus in my argument. As I've said before, I don't read every post.

                            Women who leave the workplace to have babies have to work to get back into it. Big deal. That's life. I've changed careers several times and each time it was difficult. Each time I took knowledge from a previous career and could apply it to my new endeavour. I did a quick inventory of the women in my wife's circle of friends and every one took from one to 10 years off to have children. Every single one of those women re-entered the field she was in before stopping, every woman but one. (8 women in all, all in medical professions except one lawyer.) If these women can do it, stop complaining about how hard employers are. The problem has to do with your attitude. Life is hard, get used to it.

                            And about the father's role in the child's life. Well, I will quote your first post in this thread, which started this whole discussion:



                            I am refering to this sentence. You specifically talk about THE MOTHER. And if the mother is working you suggest that someone else has to be paid for it. There is no mention of the father. See what I meant by being inconsistent? As Suna said, there are even so many mid ways. I know couples who both work 4 days, so that out of five work days the child is cared for by a parent 2 days. That leaves only 3 days out of 7 when it goes to grandparents or a babysitter, while both parents can have a fulfilling job and enough money to spend. Unfortunately, it is still a little difficult for men to not work full time and many employers won't accept, but it is certainly a more realistic plan than suggesting you'll find a job easily after having been out of work for 7 years.
                            Yes, in early infancy and childhood, the mother is more important than the father. Later on, the needs of the child change so that the father's role become more important. Both roles are important at all times in a child's life, and a united family is better than a broken one.



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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
                              I don't care about holes in CVs. They exist and they have to be explained. It is more difficult for a man to explain a hole in his CV than it is for a woman. Will I have to repeat this FACT many times more before you accept it as a simple declaration of how things are?
                              nobody denied it ever

                              to use your own words:
                              You dismiss the importance of fatherhood in a child's life and you complain about the difficulties of getting back into the workforce after raising your children.

                              Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
                              I don't care about holes in CVs.
                              Last edited by Suna123; 07-07-2017, 10:56 PM.
                              In dir muß brennen, was du in anderen entzünden willst. What you wish to kindle in others must burn within yourself. [Aurelius]

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Suna123 View Post

                                nobody denied it ever

                                to use your own words:
                                You dismiss the importance of fatherhood in a child's life and you complain about the difficulties of getting back into the workforce after raising your children.


                                What in gawd's name are you going on about? Go to bed, get some rest. It must be very late in Germany now. You're making about as much sense as "The Finnish Asshole" at the moment, so you need to sleep..

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