Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

News from occupied Ukrainian territories (Crimea, Donbass, Lugansk) #3

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by swmarmalade View Post

    Are you disappointed?
    I think that that alleviation of the visa-regime is highly overestimated. Ok, we have it, what next? About of 5% of ukrainians can afford to travel (as TOURISTS!) in Europe. It's good, but those people could travel in Europe with visas also. Other people couldn't and can't afford the travel with visas or without. It's not about work and education in Europe. And even if, is it so huge preference? We won't be a part of Europe in the foreseeable future. And IF, we won't be a next Poland or Greece with its huge EU credits and financial aid. So, the visa-free regime is a good thing, but it won't change well-being of ukrainians at all.

    Comment


    • Standard of Living of the Ukrainians will of course not change from day to day after joining the EU. But there will be changes in the horizon of only a few years, and life will be much better than before. Corruption is almost disappearing in Ukraine, and local leeches = the oligarchs will cease to be as influential as they are today.

      Comment


      • This stupid Bolshevik and the former KGB bastard named Putin now have min 40 fake webs in every country where they are constantly expanding their stupid propaganda - nonsenses and lies..

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ZORRO_RAMBO View Post
          Standard of Living of the Ukrainians will of course not change from day to day after joining the EU. But there will be changes in the horizon of only a few years, and life will be much better than before. Corruption is almost disappearing in Ukraine, and local leeches = the oligarchs will cease to be as influential as they are today.
          You so funny, guys. You only retranslate some biases and don't provide any facts or even some (even also biased) researchers for your opinion. For example, you claim "corruption is almost disappearing in Ukraine". It's total bullshit. The corruption not is disappearing in Ukraine, it's not even diminished in the recent years. And there a RESEARCH to support my claim, not only my own experience as a ukrainian prosecutor (it's my job): https://www.transparency.org/country/UKR . We have 131 ranks among 176 researched countries. 131, Karl! It's about the same as in the "Yanukovich-era". So, when you claim that "corruption is almost disappearing in Ukraine" you simply lying.
          As for your "Living of the Ukrainians will of course not change from day to day after joining the EU", it's also a lie. There no statements or promises of the forthcoming ukrainian joining with the EU. Quite a contrary, many europeans officials gave statements, that Ukraine WON'T join the EU in the foreseeable future. Of course, they cannot simply say to ukrainians "to fuck off", but they do almost the same in the diplomatic language. The visa-free regime or the economic association with EU are not about the following joining with EU. Europe has many problems with existent members, especially the recent ones and with immigration crises. To give the membership to the poor and torn by the war country with 42 million population, it'a madness unimaginable even for the current European leadership.

          Comment


          • Putin supports oligarchs, corruption, and poverty in Ukraine, as well as Hitler support the misery and dissatisfaction of the Sudeten Germans in Czechoslovakia just before the war. That's exactly the same story.

            I like the Ukrainians and the Russians.. you must to get rid of that bastard Putin once and for all.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
              I think that that alleviation of the visa-regime is highly overestimated. Ok, we have it, what next?
              What did you expect: a miracle?

              Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
              About of 5% of ukrainians can afford to travel (as TOURISTS!) in Europe
              Can you give us a proof for this number? Because I know a lot of Ukrainians travelling across the world, espesially among the youth.

              Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
              We won't be a part of Europe in the foreseeable future
              Can you explaine why?

              Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
              So, the visa-free regime is a good thing, but it won't change well-being of ukrainians at all.
              It wasn't meant to make Ukrainians rich, it was meant to make it easier for Ukrainians to travel to Europe.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                To give the membership to the poor and torn by the war country with 42 million population, it'a madness unimaginable even for the current European leadership.
                LOL. As for me it's better to give the membership in EU to "the poor and torn by the war" country (by the way, just in case you forgot, you constantly insist that there's no war in Ukraine) than to open the way to Europe to the uncontrollable waves of refugees from the Middle East, a great part of whom are actually economic migrants.

                Comment


                • There are several basic reasons why is in Russia still misery.:

                  1) Americans have never been to the moon (onlY just lies and US propaganda)
                  2) Terrorist attack on NY Twins in 2002 = everything was staged by the CIA.
                  3) The Jewish plot - all the Jews conspired against Russia
                  4) Homosexuals
                  5) Radio Free Europe
                  6) West and EU fascists
                  7) Chemtrails!

                  That's what Putin says, so that's true! If they said it in Russian TV, it must be true!

                  If those conspiracies were not, then there would in Russia were paradise on the Earth!

                  Comment


                  • Comment


                    • Originally posted by swmarmalade View Post
                      What did you expect: a miracle?
                      Nope, I had explained above, the visa-free regime is a good thing, but nothing more.

                      Originally posted by swmarmalade View Post
                      Can you give us a proof for this number? Because I know a lot of Ukrainians travelling across the world, espesially among the youth.
                      Not exactly. Ok, maybe, more than 5%, but I doubt that much more. There some researchers: https://ua.igotoworld.com/ua/news/10...a-granicey.htm . From 50 to 77% of Ukrainians NEVER were abroad, and only about 10% do it on more or less regular basis. BUT, "abroad" doesn't mean "in Europe". The vast majority of those, who do travel, went in Turkey or Egypt. And Russia, Belorussia are also "abroad". So, yes, not many ukrainians would be benefited by this alleviation from the EU.


                      Originally posted by swmarmalade View Post
                      Can you explaine why?
                      It's a broad topic. As I said, the current state of the EU isn't much promising for "wanna-be" members. Britain is leaving, migrants are coming, right-wing movements are rising. And, it's YOU who must prove me wrong, as you obviously think, that Ukraine has a chance. I don't even know why you must think so, besides a wishful thinking.

                      Originally posted by swmarmalade View Post
                      It wasn't meant to make Ukrainians rich, it was meant to make it easier for Ukrainians to travel to Europe.
                      And it would do it, for some minority. But, it's really "patriotic" to dream about easy ways to leave your beloved country as soon as possible?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                        Not exactly. Ok, maybe, more than 5%, but I doubt that much more. There some researchers: https://ua.igotoworld.com/ua/news/10...a-granicey.htm . From 50 to 77% of Ukrainians NEVER were abroad, and only about 10% do it on more or less regular basis. BUT, "abroad" doesn't mean "in Europe". The vast majority of those, who do travel, went in Turkey or Egypt. And Russia, Belorussia are also "abroad". So, yes, not many ukrainians would be benefited by this alleviation from the EU.
                        So, at least 33% of Ukrainians have travelled abroad,and I hope you noticed that two other researches from the link you posted state that 45% and 58% of Ukrainians respectively have travelled abroad. It seems you're so disappointed by the visa-free regime that you're trying to downplay its significance by all means.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                          It's a broad topic. As I said, the current state of the EU isn't much promising for "wanna-be" members. Britain is leaving, migrants are coming, right-wing movements are rising. And, it's YOU who must prove me wrong, as you obviously think, that Ukraine has a chance. I don't even know why you must think so, besides a wishful thinking.
                          Because I constantly meet creative people, people who are trying to change our life for better. They don't want to be a part of the Soviet-like state, they want to be free and they're more interested in European values than in the Soviet ones. I don't think you'll meet them among prosecutors but believe me therer are a lot of them in Ukraine.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                            And it would do it, for some minority. But, it's really "patriotic" to dream about easy ways to leave your beloved country as soon as possible?
                            Just in case, the aim of the visa-free regime is to make it easier to travel to the EU, not to emigrate.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by swmarmalade View Post
                              So, at least 33% of Ukrainians have travelled abroad,and I hope you noticed that two other researches from the link you posted state that 45% and 58% of Ukrainians respectively have travelled abroad. It seems you're so disappointed by the visa-free regime that you're trying to downplay its significance by all means.
                              As I already had mentioned, "abroad" doesn't mean "in Europe". So, when about 50% or 33% WERE abroad, the vast majority of them were in Russia, Turkey, and Egypt. On the other hand, there some estimates that about 5 millions of ukrainians work in Europe (or through the world, I don't remember). So, if you include this number to the "tourists", you would get be a better picture.

                              Originally posted by swmarmalade View Post
                              Because I constantly meet creative people, people who are trying to change our life for better. They don't want to be a part of the Soviet-like state, they want to be free and they're more interested in European values than in the Soviet ones. I don't think you'll meet them among prosecutors but believe me therer are a lot of them in Ukraine.
                              And I want to fuck Jennifer Connelly (my wife, sorry). So what? I can want many things and even would achieve some of them. Your "creative people" often also dream to leave this "god-blessed" place and live somewhere in Europe, the US or other normal countries. By the way, it's even not an argument. Let's say, there really many smart and creative people in Ukraine (and they don't want to leave the country, which for me is a rather rare occasion). They work and develop the country. But why do you think they could succeed? Or even if they could, why do you think that Europe would be glad to take yet another post-soviet member? Again, there are many indications that the EU wouldn't be expanding in the foreseeable future. And your "argument" is an another example of "wishful thinking". Because despite all your "creative and interested in European values people" we for the three years after "the revolution of dignity" have the same level of corruption, the worse economy and less of freedom of speech. Also, we have a war (the civil war).

                              Originally posted by swmarmalade View Post
                              Just in case, the aim of the visa-free regime is to make it easier to travel to the EU, not to emigrate.
                              I know! But from people's responses to the news about this, I often hear that they think, that they would work or study without visas. Morons. Or they think that they would cheat the system, illegally work in Europe. But then they are far from "European values" of law obedience.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                                So, when about 50% or 33% WERE abroad, the vast majority of them were in Russia, Turkey, and Egypt.
                                Do you have any proof? Or it's just your assumption as it was with your statement that only 5% of Ukrainians travelled abroad?

                                Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                                And I want to fuck Jennifer Connelly (my wife, sorry).
                                Why not to try?
                                Personally I'd prefer Jennifer Aniston

                                Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                                I can want many things and even would achieve some of them.
                                They don't just want, they achieve them.

                                Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                                Your "creative people" often also dream to leave this "god-blessed" place and live somewhere in Europe, the US or other normal countries.
                                Who told you that? Among them there are professionals who constantly travel to Europe and nevertherless they come back home to Ukraine

                                Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                                They work and develop the country. But why do you think they could succeed?
                                At least they try. Of course there are no guarantees, but as an old Soviet proverb says Moscow hasn't been built at once (those who are from the post-Soviet countries will understand). They don't sit back complaining about hard life in Ukraine. Life is hard everywhere, everywhere you have to earn your living. And they understand that and try to achieve their goals here.

                                Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                                why do you think that Europe would be glad to take yet another post-soviet member?
                                I don't want Europe to take Ukraine. I want Ukraine to become a part of the continent which values are more valuable for me than the Soviet and Russian ones.

                                Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                                Again, there are many indications that the EU wouldn't be expanding in the foreseeable future.
                                Who knows, may be yes, may be no. Let's wait and see.

                                Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                                we for the three years after "the revolution of dignity" have the same level of corruption,
                                May I put this question to you as a prosecutor? Why? Or you want someone else did tha tinstead of you?

                                Originally posted by fox_aka_fox View Post
                                But from people's responses to the news about this, I often hear that they think, that they would work or study without visas. Morons.
                                What's wrong with their desire to work or study abroad without visas? What's wrong with someone's desire to move freely across the world? Do you want to say that visas stopped labour migrants? Believe me everyone I know who wanted to work abroad, in the EU or somewhere else, is already working there. Did they wait for the visa-free regime? Of course no, they decided and they found a way to do what they wanted despite any visas. Notice that according to your source 5 millions Ukrainians LEGALLY live abroad, And I think for those of them who live in the EU visa-free regime is a great achievement.
                                Last edited by swmarmalade; 05-21-2017, 06:42 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X