Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Poland on a serious diplomatic argument with Israel

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Poland on a serious diplomatic argument with Israel

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8182186.html

    Israel accuses Poland of Holocaust denial, over a new law, that's been passes in a Polish parliament. The new bill declares criminal consequences for using term "Polish Death Camps" in reference to Auschwitz and other Nazi camps from WW2

    http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100803203515

  • #2
    I checked on two Israeli news sites,

    www.haaretz.com
    www.jpost.com

    ...and it seems that Israel is not happy about the legislation that is to be passed in Poland. Poland has promised to amend the bill, so we'll see what will come of that.

    What I take away from all this is that both sides have deep wounds caused by the Nazis using Poland to exterminate Jews during WW2. The death camps should not be referred to as "Polish" because they were set up by the German invader. It's irrelevant if Poles (or Jews) took part in the killing, the camps would have never existed had the Germans not set them up and had a mind to exterminate people so cruelly. I fully understand Poland's point-of-view.

    On the Israeli side, mounting anti-semitism - and violence towards Jews - throughout Europe probably is responsible for their hair-trigger response.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
      I checked on two Israeli news sites,

      www.haaretz.com
      www.jpost.com

      ...and it seems that Israel is not happy about the legislation that is to be passed in Poland. Poland has promised to amend the bill, so we'll see what will come of that.

      What I take away from all this is that both sides have deep wounds caused by the Nazis using Poland to exterminate Jews during WW2. The death camps should not be referred to as "Polish" because they were set up by the German invader. It's irrelevant if Poles (or Jews) took part in the killing, the camps would have never existed had the Germans not set them up and had a mind to exterminate people so cruelly. I fully understand Poland's point-of-view.

      On the Israeli side, mounting anti-semitism - and violence towards Jews - throughout Europe probably is responsible for their hair-trigger response.

      So, a foreign power should simply dicate to another country what their laws should be? That's what it's about. Nothing more, nothing less.

      If Poland was a sovereign power, they would simply ignore requests/demands/orders etc. regarding their laws.


      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tux1 View Post
        So, a foreign power should simply dicate to another country what their laws should be? That's what it's about. Nothing more, nothing less.

        If Poland was a sovereign power, they would simply ignore requests/demands/orders etc. regarding their laws.


        doing such stuff can get one bombed
        Why is it called a tourist season if we're not supposed to hunt them?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by grgur View Post

          doing such stuff can get one bombed
          Well, I guess Israel has enough weapons by now to bomb Poland or can get the USA to do it? They don't have far to go with their bases in Germany? I don't think that will be necessary for them, though, as they already told Poland to 'discuss' the 'disagreement.'

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tux1 View Post
            So, a foreign power should simply dicate to another country what their laws should be? That's what it's about. Nothing more, nothing less.

            If Poland was a sovereign power, they would simply ignore requests/demands/orders etc. regarding their laws.
            One nation disagreeing about another's practices, policies or laws is business as usual. There is nothing new here. (Think NAFTA) Good relations between friendly nations are important, so Poland has agreed to review the bill. Whatever happens, it remains Poland's decision. The Nazi death camps were never Polish so referring to them as "Polish" is unacceptable.



            PS...I visited a Nazi death camp in France. At no time was the Natzwiller-Struthof camp referred to as a "French" camp because it was never French. The same consideration must be shown to those camps the Germans established in Poland.

            Comment


            • #7
              http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42858839

              I chose the BBC source but is that what Roger was talking about?: "President Duda promised "careful analysis" of the legislation following the outcry from Israel on Sunday."

              Either way, the governments criminalizes the 'wrong version/narrative.'

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

                One nation disagreeing about another's practices, policies or laws is business as usual. There is nothing new here. (Think NAFTA) Good relations between friendly nations are important, so Poland has agreed to review the bill. Whatever happens, it remains Poland's decision. The Nazi death camps were never Polish so referring to them as "Polish" is unacceptable.



                PS...I visited a Nazi death camp in France. At no time was the Natzwiller-Struthof camp referred to as a "French" camp because it was never French. The same consideration must be shown to those camps the Germans established in Poland.
                Except your analysis is inaccurate and conclusion is incorrect. Israel is demanding they 'change' their legislation (to their liking). It's intimidation and interfering with the laws/legal procedure etc. of another nation. These are 'not friendly' relations behaviours or actions. Poland should be able to call them whatever they wish, whether Israel or anyone else agrees with it or not. Criminalizing the 'wrong narrative' or 'statement' is another issue altogether but I'm trying to stay on topic.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tux1 View Post
                  Except your analysis is inaccurate and conclusion is incorrect. Israel is demanding they 'change' their legislation (to their liking). It's intimidation and interfering with the laws/legal procedure etc. of another nation. These are 'not friendly' relations behaviours or actions. Poland should be able to call them whatever they wish, whether Israel or anyone else agrees with it or not. Criminalizing the 'wrong narrative' or 'statement' is another issue altogether but I'm trying to stay on topic.
                  Israel can say whatever it likes. The decision remains Poland’s. Both are sovereign nations making known their views, and both nations have a good relationship with each other.

                  There is a nice parallel with the present NAFTA negotiations. The USA is making all manner of incendiary declarations and unrealistic demands. That’s simply the nature of some foreign affairs. It’s business as usual. There’s no love lost between friendly nations.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    let me put some facts together
                    - I don't see Poland on this map while Auschwitz was opened in May. 1940.
                    Maybe was Konzentrationslager Dachau in Bavaria a Polish concentration camp too?

                    https://abload.de/img/blitzkrieg19400drkt.png

                    - Being Jew isn't a nationality, majority of Jews killed in Holocaust had polish citizenship before WW2 breakout.
                    - Catholic poles were killed in Auschwitz by Nazi regime too as many other nations, not only exclusively Jews. For hiding Jews was the sentence detaining in Konzentrationslager or compulsory labor. Very few people knew what happens in those camps to beginning of war, hence they handed over many Jews to avoid a sentence.
                    - Somehow I don't remember since when we are a part of Israel, that they determine which laws are allowed and which aren't.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

                      Israel can say whatever it likes. The decision remains Poland’s. Both are sovereign nations making known their views, and both nations have a good relationship with each other.

                      There is a nice parallel with the present NAFTA negotiations. The USA is making all manner of incendiary declarations and unrealistic demands. That’s simply the nature of some foreign affairs. It’s business as usual. There’s no love lost between friendly nations.

                      Meanwhile i think it's propaganda food for Polish and Israeli politicians + media.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hades91 View Post

                        Meanwhile i think it's propaganda food for Polish and Israeli politicians + media.
                        Excellent point! And I fully agree with you.

                        And I like your map from May, 1940. Auschwitz is in Nazi Germany! I love it!

                        Case closed!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

                          Excellent point! And I fully agree with you.

                          And I like your map from May, 1940. Auschwitz is in Nazi Germany! I love it!

                          Case closed!

                          Please don't make it so easy,
                          there must be some spice of harsh disagreeing and subliminal insults, otherwise it's not IP

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think many Israelis see the actions of the polish catholic church as being totally anti semitic as regards Auschwitz...
                            In 1984 the polish cardinal macharsky took over one of the main buildings used to store the zclone gas used for exterminating jews and turned the building into a Carmelite nunnery complete with 11 nuns....Later they erected a huge cross which also caused a lot of bad feeling..
                            The pope ordered the nunnery closed and it was for a while but poles did not accept this and so the nunnery is still operating...
                            At the hands of the Nazis, polands jews were not murdered for being polish they were murdered for being JEWS,auschwitz is a massive jewish war grave and I think the poles are showing extreme disrespect by christianising the site...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Elishar View Post
                              I think many Israelis see the actions of the polish catholic church as being totally anti semitic as regards Auschwitz...
                              In 1984 the polish cardinal macharsky took over one of the main buildings used to store the zclone gas used for exterminating jews and turned the building into a Carmelite nunnery complete with 11 nuns....Later they erected a huge cross which also caused a lot of bad feeling..
                              The pope ordered the nunnery closed and it was for a while but poles did not accept this and so the nunnery is still operating...
                              At the hands of the Nazis, polands jews were not murdered for being polish they were murdered for being JEWS,auschwitz is a massive jewish war grave and I think the poles are showing extreme disrespect by christianising the site...
                              The Carmelites, the church and the cross are another issue altogether. These have nothing to do with the proposed law.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X