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The Lack of Freedom of Speech Around the World

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  • #16
    Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post

    But what do you mean by "we should"? We do, or we do not, and all definitions like that are a matter of convention based on prevalent sentiments in the society. On the same basis we banned wearning t-shirts with S.Bandera here in Poland. Because it is like slap in the face for Polish society.
    US are just too young country to dictate others what is right or wrong. They may be influential economically in the world, but I absolutely do not accept the absolute freedom of speech standard that Americans represent.
    So you are saying we should forbid some people based on ones' feelings. Following this "logic", you should ban the term of "faggot" because it's like a slap in the face of homosexuals, forbid people to deny or to question a murder or an assassination because of victims' feelings, forbid people to question capitalism in a capitalist country because it would be like a slap in the face of the capitalist country.

    You will say no, right ? Why there is a double standard then ?


    There are younger countries than US and current Poland is one of them. Moreover freedom of speech doesn't exist either in USA, people are censoring each others.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
      So you are saying we should forbid some people based on ones' feelings. Following this "logic", you should ban the term of "faggot" because it's like a slap in the face of homosexuals, forbid people to deny or to question a murder or an assassination because of victims' feelings, forbid people to question capitalism in a capitalist country because it would be like a slap in the face of the capitalist country.

      You will say no, right ? Why there is a double standard then ?
      I won't say no. You seem to misunderstand this, as once again you suggest that "we should" do something. There is no "we should". The law we have is the effect of how people vote in the elections, I'm not really intrested in how law "should" be. And for your examples there are anti-defamation laws that are applicable in these situations. If you prove defamation in court, then the consequences are the same as in case of what you call "negationism".

      Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
      There are younger countries than US and current Poland is one of them. Moreover freedom of speech doesn't exist either in USA, people are censoring each others.
      Poland originates in 966 A.D please work on your maths.
      Freedom of speech in US is a matter of 1st Amendment and has much wider character than in Poland.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post

        I won't say no. You seem to misunderstand this, as once again you suggest that "we should" do something. There is no "we should". The law we have is the effect of how people vote in the elections, I'm not really intrested in how law "should" be. And for your examples there are anti-defamation laws that are applicable in these situations. If you prove defamation in court, then the consequences are the same as in case of what you call "negationism".
        You suggest something, the censorship according to people's feelings in general, by supporting something else, the current censorship. There is no defamation in denying something or saying faggot to talk about homosexuals in general.

        Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
        Poland originates in 966 A.D please work on your maths.
        Freedom of speech in US is a matter of 1st Amendment and has much wider character than in Poland.
        Work your reading because I said current Poland, current Poland has nothing to do with the historical one. Being nice with you ; USA is a Republic since 1789 and Poland since 1918 (thought it got rekt between 1918 and 1990), in that sense, USA is way older than Poland.

        US might give the 1st Amendment to its citizens, however it also implicitly forbids some words such as nigger and is explicitely censoring its movies and the medias in general. Censorship in general is way more than a simple constitution and can work through propaganda very well, giving the illusion of freedom to people, and which is fabulous here is that USA is a leader when it comes to fabricate consent.
        Also, corporations can censorship anything they want because the 1st amendment only works for laws.
        Last edited by Sancta_Lux; 06-16-2018, 09:40 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
          You suggest something, the censorship according to people's feelings in general, by supporting something else, the current censorship. There is no defamation in denying something or saying faggot to talk about homosexuals in general.
          No. That depends on the definition of defamation in this or that legal act.

          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
          Work your reading because I said current Poland, current Poland has nothing to do with the historical one. Being nice with you ; USA is a Republic since 1789 and Poland since 1918 (thought it got rekt between 1918 and 1990), in that sense, USA is way older than Poland.
          You must be joking. Current Poland originated in 966 AD and it has everything to do with the historical one. Its culture, history, legal tradition, political tradition, even more or less the same territiory (Greater Poland still in our borders). If we follow your logic, then current France originates in 1958 and has nothing to do with the land of Charles the Great

          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
          US might give the 1st Amendment to its citizens, however it also implicitly forbids some words such as nigger and is explicitely censoring its movies and the medias in general. Censorship in general is way more than a simple constitution and can work through propaganda very well, giving the illusion of freedom to people, and which is fabulous here is that USA is a leader when it comes to fabricate consent.
          This is just leftism in application, which has no legal basis at all. For saying nigger you might get you ass kicked by some bunch of angry niggers but nothing else.
          Last edited by jordan_rudess; 06-16-2018, 09:56 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post

            No. That depends on the definition of defamation in this or that legal act.
            Defamation is a false statement, there is no false statements in denying something or using faggots instead of homosexuals.

            Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
            You must be joking. Current Poland originated in 966 AD and it has everything to do with the historical one. Its culture, history, legal tradition, political tradition, even more or less the same territiory (Greater Poland still in our borders). If we follow your logic, then current France originates in 1958 and has nothing to do with the land of Charles the Great
            How many time will I have to repeat myself ? I said current
            Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
            This is just leftism in application, which has no legal basis at all. For saying nigger you might get you ass kicked by some bunch of angry niggers but nothing else.
            Nothing leftist here, just an application of something overpowered called propaganda, using the stupidity of the crowds and there is a legal basis as I added just after.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
              Defamation is a false statement, there is no false statements in denying something or using faggots instead of homosexuals.
              Of course there is false statement in denying something. That is precisely why this law (at least here in Poland) says denying despite the existing evidence. I'd agree about homosexuals, but it's just insult then, which is still a crime under Polish penal code.

              Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
              How many time will I have to repeat myself ? I said current
              Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
              Nothing leftist here, just an application of something overpowered called propaganda, using the stupidity of the crowds and there is a legal basis as I added just after.
              If you don't see leftism in this, then no wonder leftists in your country fuck you in the ass without lubricant
              Last edited by jordan_rudess; 06-16-2018, 10:34 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post

                Negationism isn't violating the rights of the others, words and ideas remain words and ideas unless you start to apply them. There is freedom or there is no, Poland, as France, is into pseudo-freedom of speech.
                I can only go by 'jordan' and the other Polish guy here and from my perception, jordan, at least, doesn't understand the principle or value of freedom of speech. Yes, the most prominent example is from the 'American' point of view or perspective but it's a universal principle and not strictly 'American.' It has been debated in American history but 'rights' of others are also considered and the element of harm is a distinct question or consideration. However, one needs to establish that harm is to such an extent that it outweighs the freedom of expression or speech and that's difficult to do.

                Once, you go down the road to limiting, restricting or preventing liberty, especially freedom of speech and expression, it's very easy to abuse that power and one has to acknowledge there are no checks and balances for governments who decide to abolish or prevent freedoms. After all, when one has enough power to prevent such a freedom, there is very little you can do about it unless enough people decide it's unethical and figure out how to respond.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post

                  Of course there is false statement in denying something. That is precisely why this law (at least here in Poland) says denying despite the existing evidence. I'd agree about homosexuals, but it's just insult then, which is still a crime under Polish penal code.
                  Denying is refusing to believe something, where is the false statement? If there was any defamation in deny, then there wouldn't be anything about negationism, it would fall in "defamation box", simply.
                  Not really an insult if directed to nobody especially... And saying nigga would be the exact same.

                  Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                  And how many times do I have to repeat that this is bullshit? A country is not its political system. Political system is just one of elements of a country. We are now having debates on a shape of a new Constitution. Based on your logic if we enact new Constitution we're having a new country? Please stop being ridiculous. And no, current France originates in Merovingian times or probably a bit earlier.
                  A country without its own political system and then sovereignty isn't a country but an area, a region, and freedom of speech is in everything related to a political system snce it depends on it. You don't seem to understand the meaning of "current", I never said there was a new country once you change your political system.

                  Democracy : Demos = people.

                  Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                  If you don't see leftism in this, then no wonder leftists in your country fuck you in the ass without lubricant
                  You insult the peasants and then you claims it's leftism, are you voluntary paradoxical or is this a joke? Talking about leftism I'm way more aware of how it is since I live in an area that is especially into this shit, which permit me to warn you about its raise in Poland, because most of the hints are here to affirm it will fucked you soon if you neglect that much propaganda and education, but feel free to think you are immune to manipulation and let the leftist becoming teachers

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                    Denying is refusing to believe something, where is the false statement? If there was any defamation in deny, then there wouldn't be anything about negationism, it would fall in "defamation box", simply.
                    Believing in what? There's nothing to believe here, it's the sphere of history and facts.

                    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                    Not really an insult if directed to nobody especially... And saying nigga would be the exact same.
                    How can such thing be directed to nobody? When you say it in your home then maybe. But in the street, in there's some guy walking and hears it then you may be sued for insult.

                    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                    A country without its own political system and then sovereignty isn't a country but an area, a region,
                    Irrelevant, that's not the case I was discussing in my previous post

                    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                    and freedom of speech is in everything related to a political system snce it depends on it.
                    Please stop confusing different topics, you're now connecting two unrelated fragments of my previous post.

                    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                    You don't seem to understand the meaning of "current", I never said there was a new country once you change your political system.
                    And you don't seem to understand the meaning of "orginates"

                    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                    Democracy : Demos = people.
                    Yup. And all aristocracy in old Poland had equal rights between each other. Aristocracy had parliament and it elected the king in the elections that were very similar to modern ones.

                    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                    You insult the peasants and then you claims it's leftism, are you voluntary paradoxical or is this a joke?
                    Once again, two unrelated parts of my post connected by you.

                    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                    Talking about leftism I'm way more aware of how it is since I live in an area that is especially into this shit, which permit me to warn you about its raise in Poland, because most of the hints are here to affirm it will fucked you soon if you neglect that much propaganda and education, but feel free to think you are immune to manipulation and let the leftist becoming teachers
                    You're not aware of shit We've had communism in practice, we know this and how it is harmful, while you've just packed the shit into the color wrapping and named it "social democracy"

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                      Believing in what? There's nothing to believe here, it's the sphere of history and facts.
                      History is not full of facts and not believing facts is possible, it's called negationism for example. You also have some issues with trusting somefacts.

                      Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                      How can such thing be directed to nobody? When you say it in your home then maybe. But in the street, in there's some guy walking and hears it then you may be sued for insult.
                      Nobody especially* It might be incorrect, I meant there is no specific individual targeted. In France an insult have to be directed to someone.

                      Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                      Irrelevant, that's not the case I was discussing in my previous post
                      It's the pot colling the kettle black.

                      Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                      Please stop confusing different topics, you're now connecting two unrelated fragments of my previous post.
                      I'm not confusing anything, I'm just stating a fact, an obvious fact.

                      Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                      And you don't seem to understand the meaning of "orginates"
                      See, the pot, the kettle...

                      Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                      Yup. And all aristocracy in old Poland had equal rights between each other. Aristocracy had parliament and it elected the king in the elections that were very similar to modern ones.
                      you have a problem with the word democracy. Aristocracy is already the word to talking about nobility exercing the power, I would give you a hint to remember it : Aristocracy.

                      Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                      Once again, two unrelated parts of my post connected by you.
                      On the opposite, there is a relation, you despise the peasants and then you label people who do so 'leftists".

                      Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                      You're not aware of shit We've had communism in practice, we know this and how it is harmful, while you've just packed the shit into the color wrapping and named it "social democracy"
                      Stop kidding, you didn't live under communism, you are like these Algerians complaining about colonialism when they didn't know it at all, lol. As for communism, if the name changed so I should know it too because I got and I get it right now, but it seems Polish are forgetting how it looks like because leftism is also growing up there in the dark, like rats in the sewers

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                      • #26
                        Ah yeah... Europe and its silly attempts to regulate the world and how free speech should be limited to their political views. We in Canada can still say out loud what we think, and we will continue to keep that up. I would love to see Europe isolating itself into its own network instead of trying to regulate our social-networks... A real pain in the neck :/

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                          History is not full of facts and not believing facts is possible, it's called negationism for example. You also have some issues with trusting somefacts.
                          That is why it equals to defamation.

                          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                          Nobody especially* It might be incorrect, I meant there is no specific individual targeted. In France an insult have to be directed to someone.
                          Yes. That is why I said when you say faggot and some gay hears it.


                          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                          I'm not confusing anything, I'm just stating a fact, an obvious fact.
                          ...okay?


                          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                          you have a problem with the word democracy. Aristocracy is already the word to talking about nobility exercing the power, I would give you a hint to remember it : Aristocracy.
                          Of course I have a problem with it. I'm a monarchist

                          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                          On the opposite, there is a relation, you despise the peasants and then you label people who do so 'leftists".
                          Leftists do not despise peasants. Leftists despise white people, especially straight white men

                          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                          Stop kidding, you didn't live under communism, you are like these Algerians complaining about colonialism when they didn't know it at all, lol.
                          Of course I did

                          Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                          As for communism, if the name changed so I should know it too because I got and I get it right now, but it seems Polish are forgetting how it looks like because leftism is also growing up there in the dark, like rats in the sewers
                          But you don't. You like it and call it "progressivism"
                          The intresting thing though is the fact that you don't see marxism surrounding you. I recommend this instructional video


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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by AndNowWhat View Post
                            Ah yeah... Europe and its silly attempts to regulate the world and how free speech should be limited to their political views. We in Canada can still say out loud what we think, and we will continue to keep that up. I would love to see Europe isolating itself into its own network instead of trying to regulate our social-networks... A real pain in the neck :/
                            hahahahaha lol as if your social networks were oasis of free speech. According to new fb algorithms you cannot even say you don't like beer, because it catches "don't like" and threatens to ban you
                            Last edited by jordan_rudess; 06-17-2018, 10:06 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                              That is why it equals to defamation.
                              Different words, different meanings.

                              Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                              Yes. That is why I said when you say faggot and some gay hears it.
                              it's not directed to any of them personnally.

                              Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                              Of course I have a problem with it. I'm a monarchist
                              Irrelevant, but you are the pleb anyway, so...

                              Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                              Leftists do not despise peasants. Leftists despise white people, especially straight white men
                              Leftists despise peasants as well, it seems you are not aware of what is a leftist : Pretending you defend the peasants when you are in fact patronizing them with a good amount of ignorance and disdain. Same goes for the arabs, the gay or any minorities.

                              Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                              Of course I did
                              Not old enough for that

                              Originally posted by jordan_rudess View Post
                              But you don't. You like it and call it "progressivism"
                              The intresting thing though is the fact that you don't see marxism surrounding you.
                              You like to live under illusions, don't you ? I dare you to find any post where I call something progressivism and claim I like it. As for marxism, to use a leftist word, you are herere making a huge projection

                              Maybe you should stop talking to me as if I was agreeing with the policy of France, Brittany or Western Europe because it just makes you appearing ridiculous seeing my posts on this forums. Fun fact : I'm way more monarchist and probably royalist than you could be.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                                Different words, different meanings.
                                No. I already explained why it's the same as defamation of those who survived it.

                                Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                                it's not directed to any of them personnally.
                                You'd have to prove this in court

                                Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                                Irrelevant, but you are the pleb anyway, so...
                                No I'm not. I have aristocratic roots

                                Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                                Leftists despise peasants as well, it seems you are not aware of what is a leftist : Pretending you defend the peasants when you are in fact patronizing them with a good amount of ignorance and disdain. Same goes for the arabs, the gay or any minorities.
                                No. Commies prefered factory workers to farmers, but there was no "hate" included

                                Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                                Not old enough for that
                                Pfft, I was in kindergarten. I remember everything

                                Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                                You like to live under illusions, don't you ? I dare you to find any post where I call something progressivism and claim I like it.
                                By you I mean French people

                                Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                                As for marxism, to use a leftist word, you are herere making a huge projection
                                Nope

                                Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                                Maybe you should stop talking to me as if I was agreeing with the policy of France, Brittany or Western Europe because it just makes you appearing ridiculous seeing my posts on this forums.
                                The results of the elections in France, or Western Europe, show that you are in some extreme minority

                                Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
                                Fun fact : I'm way more monarchist and probably royalist than you could be.
                                lol, of course you're not, you're French Your revolution started destruction of European monarchies

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