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Religion: Necessity or Accessory?

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  • #16
    I think what matters more is your faith, what you believe in. I believe in Jesus, the religion is called Christianity.. doesn't matter what it's called really, the important thing is I believe in Him and His words (The Bible). When you have the faith, you'll see the point in believing and taking the scriptures into actions!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Matthew_Ellis9 View Post
      For a long time, I have wondered why do we have religion? Many believe that religion gives answers to the founding of the universe, others believe that it is a moral guide, and some believe that religion is just a fairytale we tell ourselves. But whatever your belief, it is true that religion as a whole has positives and negatives. So, I ask you not just whether rel is right or wrong, but also whether or not it has a place in society today?



      Our brains make shortcuts, we can't know everything, at all the time, that would fry our brain.

      So our brain has to believe somethings to be true.

      Humans, can see into the future make plans for their survival.

      Belief being the tool of the brain to make a quick judgement without overthinking.

      Religion is just societies' answers to overly complicated questions, that in some cases can never be known.
      For example: What happens when we die, what is our purpose in life, does life have meaning, should I trust my neighbour? These questions can't be known, and the more you think about them the more complicated they get. So easy to understand answers have been attempted from the worlds religions, some better than others. You have to decide which religion answers those questions the best and follow it.

      My advice, join your communities' religion, you've got to live with them after all.

      For the West, well, ... secular is fine until a neighbour with a strong belief system comes a long and forces you to conform.

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      • #18
        Hello brother .... If you don t eat you will die , if you don t have the right faith your heart will die and when your heart die everything will become normal for you even horrors . Thank you

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Abdou16Alger View Post
          Hello brother .... If you don t eat you will die , if you don t have the right faith your heart will die and
          if you have a faith (any) your brain will die
          Originally posted by Abdou16Alger View Post
          when your heart die everything will become normal for you even horrors . Thank you
          but this is great! Everything should become normal.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by murcat View Post

            anguish , poverty, humility and misery are encouraged and glorified by churches somehow as a great advantage. Look at monks and nuns , they blindly follow this stupid ideology, depriving themselves of all joys of this world, living in seclusion like hermits, because they were told, it was good to suffer, it's a sort of their sacrifice to god. These institutions - monasteries and convents are simply something abnormal, something , that goes against human nature.
            Ok...how can I put this nicely? Here...your ideas are full of crap. Is that clear enough? Nowhere does the Bible promote the BS you accuse it of. Where did you get this shit? You must have been raised Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic...I can see no other reason for your blindness.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

              Ok...how can I put this nicely? Here...your ideas are full of crap. Is that clear enough? Nowhere does the Bible promote the BS you accuse it of. Where did you get this shit? You must have been raised Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic...I can see no other reason for your blindness.
              Solitude is more often a choice made by individuals than any religion, most monastic orders started that way
              Why is it called a tourist season if we're not supposed to hunt them?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

                There is nothing virtuous about Islam. It is evil to the core, so you're right as far as Islam is concerned.
                You should not mistake all believers with crazy clerical zealots and terrorists, nor should all of them be placed in the same basket with the church mob. There are a lot of crazy people, twisting some of the good religious messages into strict set of rules, where anyone who disagrees deserves to be judged and possibly even punished. That being said, there are many good muslims (this goes for all religions, of course, or at least most of them), and religions by themselves aren't necessarily bad, they provide spiritual peace and I think that is a good thing.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Filip2 View Post

                  You should not mistake all believers with crazy clerical zealots and terrorists, nor should all of them be placed in the same basket with the church mob. There are a lot of crazy people, twisting some of the good religious messages into strict set of rules, where anyone who disagrees deserves to be judged and possibly even punished. That being said, there are many good muslims (this goes for all religions, of course, or at least most of them), and religions by themselves aren't necessarily bad, they provide spiritual peace and I think that is a good thing.
                  Religions for the most part do provide spiritual peace and most religious people are peaceful, this is true. There is a sense that religions are like soap: some soaps wash better than others but you'll end up cleaner with any soap than if you use no Soap. So, is making people "nicer" the goal of religion? If you think it is, choose one. Any one will do because they all work about the same...like soap.

                  To be more precise, I am saying that religions are absolutely worthless for a person's salvation. Practicing a religion might give you inner peace and make you a better person but after death hell awaits you anyway.

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                  • #24
                    " La religion est née le jour où le premier hypocrite a rencontré le premier imbécile "
                    Voltaire.
                    The gods were created by humans to "explain" the mysteries of life, of nature. Originally the gods were goddesses because women constituted a real mystery to men by their menstruation, pregnancies, births and the life that they gave. Men gave them a lot of power and expect of them explain their questions... where the development of witchcraft and the witches, the other for goddesses, creative of all things. And myths will join other myths often feeding each other.

                    I invite you has read Plato's Republic or he's talking about the theory of the "noble lie."
                    Last edited by sweet_pablo; 05-13-2017, 11:49 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by sweet_pablo View Post
                      " La religion est née le jour où le premier hypocrite a rencontré le premier imbécile "
                      Voltaire.
                      The gods were created by humans to "explain" the mysteries of life, of nature. Originally the gods were goddesses because women constituted a real mystery to men by their menstruation, pregnancies, births and the life that they gave. Men gave them a lot of power and expect of them explain their questions... where the development of witchcraft and the witches, the other for goddesses, creative of all things. And myths will join other myths often feeding each other.

                      I invite you has read Plato's Republic or he's talking about the theory of the "noble lie."
                      I just want to point out that your Voltaire quote, is nothing more than a philosophical assertion. It is no more true than the religions it denounces.

                      It sounds good though...that's about its only merit.

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                      • #26
                        It is not necessary. If anything religion is a plague, and I myself am religious (polytheistic). Religion may have been necessary in the past, but in this day and age? No. It causes a LOT of problems.. and I cannot say I would be too sad to see it all go.

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                        • #27
                          I'll mention a little about one particular person's interpretation of what religion really is, Jordan Peterson's, that ends up being a lot more developed and sophisticated than the common takes, and also accessible. It matches my own take fairly well but it's easier to point out as another's interpretation once they've summarized it clearly.

                          Two short video summaries follow; that might be even more approachable for some.

                          https://youtu.be/zGaEcAeTiP0

                          https://youtu.be/28i3lWxW5xs


                          People tend to take religion only as a literal belief in old stories, and a supernatural structure (what happens when we die, what God or gods exist), and a direct acceptance of a moral code (and more along that line, behavior suggestions and such). That's definitely one take, one form, but religion is doing something relatively different on another level.

                          So what is religion, really, beyond the supernatural stories? Per Jordan Peterson the stories in religion function as a narrative structure for guidance for how to live.

                          Religion informs moral practices and more than that the structure of our worldview, to the extent the cultural perspective we hold is based on a religion. As things tend to work out a society and culture can be based on religious principles of this sort, and then lots of people can drop the literal faith and retain aspects of the perspective.

                          An example: monogamy and lifetime pair bonding is an aspect of most religions, although I suppose not all. Secular society can be generally adopt these, taken from religion and other cultural inputs, and retain them, after the literal religious dimensions are dropped. Or without religion continuing to advocate them the practices could be dropped, and people could instead take up alternatives, "swinging," sexual openness, or non-traditional relationship forms.

                          To tie this back to the question, of religion (more as cultural foundation than supernatural explanation) being necessary or not, what would the alternative be? Dr. Peterson is suspicious of ideologies replacing that function, as in the case of Marxism informing Communist societies, in part due to how that worked out in the Soviet Union and China, with the problems in Cambodia a related case. Moving past those most negative examples, it seems conceivable that a more "scientific" or better philosophical approach could inform a cultural perspective. The actual practice is a bit problematic.

                          It's not that philosophy can't justify a similar moral code, even if it really is trying to arrive at a similar end point as Christian teachings and explain how it did so by a completely different route. It just doesn't work well to codify that into stories that could be adopted by a lot of people.

                          Religion has different problems with doing that same thing, that lots of people don't sort through the stories closely enough to apply the principles directly, and that there are inconsistencies in the stories and guidelines, and that accepting exceptions more or less needs to become the norm. But at least there is a starting point; it is conceivable one could read the stories and get a decent idea of how to live. It's not as if the stories were designed that way; they evolve as traditions and ideas carried over from what seemed to work in the past. It's not an intentional process, it's a type of transmission.

                          We can go further and speculate that the foundation for a culture, based in part on religion, is the reason that societies succeed or fail, so there's something like an evolutionary selection going on at a societal level. Of course that's really too simple, but it seems one part of what is really going on. The Soviet Union failed because an economic system didn't work, that replacing a free market supply and demand based system with a planned economy didn't work well enough to compete with market driven versions. This seems a good example of how one main type of input and condition can interact with others. Cases of killing off the most educated social classes in genocidal purges for political reasons surely didn't help.

                          Seems like plenty for one post, and Jordan Peterson probably made it clearer in those videos anyway.

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                          • #28
                            I am not religious but that doesn't mean I will disrespect my or any other religion what I understand is that its always relative comparison why don't leave it to experts common people with common knowledge need not to indulge in such affairs

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                            • #29
                              To equate religion to being a necessity is like saying that 20 year old adults need 5-year-old children's fairytales.

                              Describing religion as an "accessory" would be to talk about a hammer embedded in someone's skull as being a fashion accessory.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Matthew_Ellis9 View Post
                                some believe that religion is just a fairytale we tell ourselves
                                If religion is a fairy-tale, it's not for telling ourselves, but for telling others.

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