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  • #31
    Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
    I personally would love to see read more thread about philosophy, but I think I surrendered some months ago already.
    Oublis ça! Une discussion sur la philosophie attirerait les mêmes cons allemands, finlandais et russes que ces discussions sur la foi.

    English translation:

    I think that would be a great idea. I'm sure many people here would enjoy participating in such discussions. Start one!

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post
      AS for religious education, I think I have nothing more to tell, except maybe that people seems to get a "basic" atheist education more nowaday, which make them say easily "relgions are bullshit, look how I'm so smart because I don't believe those crazy fairy tales... Omg influenza vaccine is a conspiracy !!! Our government llied to us !". I find it quite sad...
      Yes, although most are forced into a religion, it's good to have had some of its references. But I don't feel so different from the average basic atheist, seriously religious people always leave me wary.

      As my mother would say, she fell in love with the idea, but it didn't call her back

      Comment


      • #33
        If you had a time slot - at school or outside - dedicated to religious education, what did it consist of ?
        I had twelve years of religious education (I went to private christian/catholic schools. But then again, they have religion subjects in public schools too, most likely Islam) + one semester more (only two credits, but still) in the university. This country is way too obsessed with religion. It consisted of bible study, the story of Jesus, and occasional church services. Each sabbath in my elementary (christian) school, as they had their own church next to school. But only like once a month after I moved to private catholic, as church was a bit further. :x

        Did you study the big books directly, or learned through songs, comics,...?
        The bible, of course. And I was in school choir back then, meaning I had to sing during the services. Everyone had to learn christian songs.

        Was there room for discussion, questions ?
        Yes, but.. not so much about criticism, I guess?

        What kind of activities or events were organised around that religious education ? (pilgrimage, visit of museums, churches or other holy places, retreats)
        Retreat and recollection. And of course churches, as I mentioned above. but that was it.

        Whether you are still religious or not, how useful did you find that education in your path?
        Back in middle high school, I actually thought of converting to catholicism. It's not my family religion, but I've learned quite a lot over the years and most of my friends were christians/catholics, so I guess it kinda affected my thoughts. Around 19 I decided agnosticism suits me better. I've been irreligious ever since.


        That's only the religious education I had in formal school, btw. I also spent my Sundays learning another religion (Buddhist) in a nearby Buddhist temple as a kid. So maybe I should answer for both?

        If you had a time slot - at school or outside - dedicated to religious education, what did it consist of ?
        After spending Saturdays in church, I spent Sundays in Buddhist temple. It consisted of services (praying, listening to the monks' "sermon'), practicing meditation and after that some kind of extracurricular for kids (crafting, etc).

        Did you study the big books directly, or learned through songs, comics,...?
        We had paritas (holy books), but that was not really the big book (tripitaka). Oh and we had songs too.

        Was there room for discussion, questions ?
        You could have Q&A with the monks, but it was kid class that I went to, so not much interesting discussion anyway.

        What kind of activities or events were organised around that religious education ? (pilgrimage, visit of museums, churches or other holy places, retreats)
        None that I participated in.

        Whether you are still religious or not, how useful did you find that education in your path ?
        I still like some Buddhism values and views, so yeah, it was kinda useful.


        The fourth religion I had to learn was Confucianism. My parents made me go to the temple from time to time and I also read some books out of curiosity, but that's it. I know bits and pieces about Islam too, as I live here in among the huge muslim population, but I mainly know stuffs just from discussion with friends, reading articles, watching stuffs, etc.

        In general, I was pretty grateful that I got to learn several different religions altogether. It broadens my mind and teaches me a lot about tolerance, etc. I personally prefer kids to learn more than just one, as a comparative study or none at all, at least until they're older. Teach kids ethics, but do not tell them which religion they should believe in. Let them decide by themselves when they're older.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Patafix View Post
          Yes, although most are forced into a religion, it's good to have had some of its references. But I don't feel so different from the average basic atheist, seriously religious people always leave me wary.

          As my mother would say, she fell in love with the idea, but it didn't call her back
          Well, I don't really see any difference between religious people and non-religious generally. If it's not about religion, Iknow they will over talk about another subject, lol.
          Else, I think that people who are atheists but actually admit that they can fall in the same tricks than the religious are probably more humble and less disrespectful.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by loony-moonchild View Post
            If you had a time slot - at school or outside - dedicated to religious education, what did it consist of ?
            I had twelve years of religious education (I went to private christian/catholic schools. But then again, they have religion subjects in public schools too, most likely Islam) + one semester more (only two credits, but still) in the university. This country is way too obsessed with religion. It consisted of bible study, the story of Jesus, and occasional church services. Each sabbath in my elementary (christian) school, as they had their own church next to school. But only like once a month after I moved to private catholic, as church was a bit further. :x

            Did you study the big books directly, or learned through songs, comics,...?
            The bible, of course. And I was in school choir back then, meaning I had to sing during the services. Everyone had to learn christian songs.

            Was there room for discussion, questions ?
            Yes, but.. not so much about criticism, I guess?

            What kind of activities or events were organised around that religious education ? (pilgrimage, visit of museums, churches or other holy places, retreats)
            Retreat and recollection. And of course churches, as I mentioned above. but that was it.

            Whether you are still religious or not, how useful did you find that education in your path?
            Back in middle high school, I actually thought of converting to catholicism. It's not my family religion, but I've learned quite a lot over the years and most of my friends were christians/catholics, so I guess it kinda affected my thoughts. Around 19 I decided agnosticism suits me better. I've been irreligious ever since.


            That's only the religious education I had in formal school, btw. I also spent my Sundays learning another religion (Buddhist) in a nearby Buddhist temple as a kid. So maybe I should answer for both?

            If you had a time slot - at school or outside - dedicated to religious education, what did it consist of ?
            After spending Saturdays in church, I spent Sundays in Buddhist temple. It consisted of services (praying, listening to the monks' "sermon'), practicing meditation and after that some kind of extracurricular for kids (crafting, etc).

            Did you study the big books directly, or learned through songs, comics,...?
            We had paritas (holy books), but that was not really the big book (tripitaka). Oh and we had songs too.

            Was there room for discussion, questions ?
            You could have Q&A with the monks, but it was kid class that I went to, so not much interesting discussion anyway.

            What kind of activities or events were organised around that religious education ? (pilgrimage, visit of museums, churches or other holy places, retreats)
            None that I participated in.

            Whether you are still religious or not, how useful did you find that education in your path ?
            I still like some Buddhism values and views, so yeah, it was kinda useful.


            The fourth religion I had to learn was Confucianism. My parents made me go to the temple from time to time and I also read some books out of curiosity, but that's it. I know bits and pieces about Islam too, as I live here in among the huge muslim population, but I mainly know stuffs just from discussion with friends, reading articles, watching stuffs, etc.

            In general, I was pretty grateful that I got to learn several different religions altogether. It broadens my mind and teaches me a lot about tolerance, etc. I personally prefer kids to learn more than just one, as a comparative study or none at all, at least until they're older. Teach kids ethics, but do not tell them which religion they should believe in. Let them decide by themselves when they're older.

            Why did you go to a Christian school since your parents are Buddhist/Confucian? In the US some parents who live in neighborhoods with bad public schools send their kids to private Catholic schools even though they aren't Catholic because they believe the quality of their education will be better.

            I really enjoyed the religious studies classes I took in college and it's a topic I have continued to remain interested in. But I'm glad we didn't have to take religion classes in high school because, especially in the conservative, highly religious area I lived in, it would have been an indoctrination into Christianity and any student who had different beliefs would have been socially ostracized.

            Comment


            • #36
              In our case it was mere brainwashing, especially early on openly so (the accompanying schoolbook was even called "Good Shepherd"...) and later because many teachers were conservative Christians making ethics classes just more of the same. About other religions than Christianity there was practically nothing at all. Any kind of critical approach was always made impossible.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by dmitri11 View Post
                Full religious education is only for the elite, because religion is a lot of money. We can see attempts of clerics to be implemented in the school to infiltrate the minds of children.
                WOW what a lot of bulldust!!!!!

                Our local Christian College happens to be on of the most highly respected private schools..... and no more expensive than government run schools.

                Clerics aren't 'implemented' into anything. (Whatever that means) and going by your comment.... what hillbilly redneck infiltrated your mind?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by ChrisShiva View Post


                  Why did you go to a Christian school since your parents are Buddhist/Confucian? In the US some parents who live in neighborhoods with bad public schools send their kids to private Catholic schools even though they aren't Catholic because they believe the quality of their education will be better.

                  I really enjoyed the religious studies classes I took in college and it's a topic I have continued to remain interested in. But I'm glad we didn't have to take religion classes in high school because, especially in the conservative, highly religious area I lived in, it would have been an indoctrination into Christianity and any student who had different beliefs would have been socially ostracized.
                  There were two schools not far from where I lived in South Borneo. One was a private Christian, the other was Buddhist. But the thing is like most other schools, it was necessary to learn the local language in that Buddhist school. The private Christian one had different curriculum and erased that subject entirely. We just moved and I spoke zero word in it so my dad sent me there. Fast forward several years, we moved back to Jakarta and the Catholic school was the closest​ to our house.... In general though, public schools here are more general (with a tendency to Muslim), and beside Islamic schools, private ones are mainly Christian and Catholic. Buddhist schools are very few in comparison. Special Confucian school doesn't even exist.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Patafix View Post
                    I also give up to get back on topic and not turn the whole thread around this other issue. No offence but it does get tiring to have the same discussions on different threads too after a while.

                    I would love to hear more stories around religious educations especially about religions (including other christian branches - I forgot to mention I was raised Catholic) I don't know.
                    Delicate ultimatum Maybe you wish for more stories on pervy priests and hysterical spinsters, just like the ones you've shared instead of topical news about Islam being shoved down European kids' throats? Maybe someone will post things which you will approve of, I can't, unfortunately because we have a completely different religious education here.

                    Here nowadays religious education is a completely different case than I've read in the negative stories you've shared - here kids have a choice and are not brainwashed by pervs/spinsters like in your stories - they have respectable teachers and if they do not like the subject they can easily give up and attend ethics classes. Nothing pushy and abnormal. Kids just used to broaden their horizon in general - they didn't even study any religion in particular and all classes used to be at school. It is up to a family here to be more religious and ask kids to go to church or not. School has no right to force which is good. I'm an atheist, so is my kid but he was happy to attend those classes he said. They were interesting. Maybe earlier things were different but I refuse to believe that nowadays kids can be pushed into a religious or whatever brainwashing if their parents do not wish for that and later when they grow up enough to be able to judge things themselves that they can suffer being religiously brainwashed during classes. At least here it would be unacceptable and parents would complain and did complain in some extreme, exceptional cases when kids were taught weird things during those classes. As for Islamization, here it is not happening (luckily) and our state laws would not punish parents for not letting a kid go to either a mosque or a church. It is up to parents to decide what they wish for and up to a kid.




                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by loony-moonchild View Post

                      There were two schools not far from where I lived in South Borneo. One was a private Christian, the other was Buddhist. But the thing is like most other schools, it was necessary to learn the local language in that Buddhist school. The private Christian one had different curriculum and erased that subject entirely. We just moved and I spoke zero word in it so my dad sent me there. Fast forward several years, we moved back to Jakarta and the Catholic school was the closest​ to our house.... In general though, public schools here are more general (with a tendency to Muslim), and beside Islamic schools, private ones are mainly Christian and Catholic. Buddhist schools are very few in comparison. Special Confucian school doesn't even exist.

                      Did your parents send you to the Catholic school because it was closest to your home or because they thought you would get a better education there?

                      In the US there is a strict separation of church and state written into the Constitution. This is because our founders wanted to avoid the religious wars between Protestant countries and Catholics countries that had been plaguing Europe for centuries. Some schools in the most conservative areas still try to have school prayer and use other means to bring religion into the schools. But it's a clear violation of the Constitution and schools that do it always lose when they are brought to court.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ChrisShiva View Post


                        Did your parents send you to the Catholic school because it was closest to your home or because they thought you would get a better education there?

                        In the US there is a strict separation of church and state written into the Constitution. This is because our founders wanted to avoid the religious wars between Protestant countries and Catholics countries that had been plaguing Europe for centuries. Some schools in the most conservative areas still try to have school prayer and use other means to bring religion into the schools. But it's a clear violation of the Constitution and schools that do it always lose when they are brought to court.
                        Proximity took priority. The school was a pretty good one. There were better ones still, but those are further and more expensive.

                        Here people think it's insanely important to teach religion as early as possible -and continuously. In my last school (Catholic), I had to memorise a number of prayers. Before we started studying in the morning, the angelus prayer at 12 o'clock, before we went home.. and many others for different occasions. I fully support separation between state and religion, but really I doubt I'll get to see Indonesia like that in my lifetime. It's technically a secular state, but religion is still far too important.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I started my Nursery education in a catholic school, run by Mother Teresa House, Calcutta. I studied there for few years, and then due to transfer of my father, i came back to Calcutta and gave entrance exam in prestigious Hindu schools, but at that time i was more fluent in English but was quite weak in writing Hindi/Bengali. So later i went into a secular English medium school.

                          In the catholic school, I remember at the entrance we had a nice and beautiful idol of mother Mary, holding baby Jesus. All the teachers were catholic nuns and we used to call them "sister". All were very kind, except one or two, may be. We didn't had so called thorough religious education, but we read about the birth of Jesus, and the beautiful moments, description, rhymes & songs surrounding it. In Christmas, we used to had who week holiday(where as normally in India only 25th Dec is holiday) and on 25th, we could voluntarily visit prayer room of school, eat cakes, sweets and pastries and there was lucky draw where everyone would get one gift. My childish mind failed to realize the essence of this day when i saw through lucky draw i only got one very long colour pencil but my friend got a toy Mercedes Benz car.

                          One day, while playing in the school ground, I found one lower jaw of an animal skull with all its teeth attached. Most probably it was thrown away by any carnivorous bird. I was very curious seeing it, and found it very interesting like an art. I put the part of the skull in my school bag and took it to my home to show to my mother. As usual she was literally scared seeing it and told to me that i became impure and as i said i found it in the school ground, she feared that this might be a part of Cow/pig skull. This was the first instance when i realized that there is something called religion/dharma present in this world.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Etsia View Post

                            Delicate ultimatum Maybe you wish for more stories on pervy priests and hysterical spinsters, just like the ones you've shared instead of topical news about Islam being shoved down European kids' throats? Maybe someone will post things which you will approve of, I can't, unfortunately because we have a completely different religious education here.

                            Here nowadays religious education is a completely different case than I've read in the negative stories you've shared - here kids have a choice and are not brainwashed by pervs/spinsters like in your stories - they have respectable teachers and if they do not like the subject they can easily give up and attend ethics classes. Nothing pushy and abnormal. Kids just used to broaden their horizon in general - they didn't even study any religion in particular and all classes used to be at school. It is up to a family here to be more religious and ask kids to go to church or not. School has no right to force which is good. I'm an atheist, so is my kid but he was happy to attend those classes he said. They were interesting. Maybe earlier things were different but I refuse to believe that nowadays kids can be pushed into a religious or whatever brainwashing if their parents do not wish for that and later when they grow up enough to be able to judge things themselves that they can suffer being religiously brainwashed during classes. At least here it would be unacceptable and parents would complain and did complain in some extreme, exceptional cases when kids were taught weird things during those classes. As for Islamization, here it is not happening (luckily) and our state laws would not punish parents for not letting a kid go to either a mosque or a church. It is up to parents to decide what they wish for and up to a kid.



                            Read my story again, it's not all negative. I merely summed up my religious education. I never said 'hysterical' abour the ladies who occasionally taught us, although I admit 'bible bashing spinsters' is derogatory. But also factual : they were bible bashing, and some were spinsters. And those were the 60s. I expected nothing more in your stories that facts and your feelings about your own experience (which I'm not sure you shared, but you mentioned your son's so..)

                            But I'm sure it's perfect where you are. Because everyone knows about everything, (I'm just teasing!)

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Patafix View Post
                              But I'm sure it's perfect where you are. Because everyone knows about everything, (I'm just teasing!)
                              I'm here to learn English.
                              "Can anybody love anyone so much that they will never fear
                              Never worry never be sad?
                              The answer is they cannot love this much nobody can.
                              This is why I don't mind you doubting."


                              Last edited by dmitri11; 07-15-2017, 09:49 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by loony-moonchild View Post

                                Proximity took priority. The school was a pretty good one. There were better ones still, but those are further and more expensive.

                                Here people think it's insanely important to teach religion as early as possible -and continuously. In my last school (Catholic), I had to memorise a number of prayers. Before we started studying in the morning, the angelus prayer at 12 o'clock, before we went home.. and many others for different occasions. I fully support separation between state and religion, but really I doubt I'll get to see Indonesia like that in my lifetime. It's technically a secular state, but religion is still far too important.

                                Was proximity important because your parents had to transport you to school or that crazy Jakarta traffic?

                                In the US bus transportation is provided to public schools but in most private schools the parents have to bring the students themselves. So I guess that is an advantage of public schools though school buses can be cruel places with lots of bullying going on.

                                Glad you were able to resist the school's efforts at religious brainwashing. The US is the most religious Western country and we have plenty of people who try to push their beliefs on others. But fortunately our Constitution was written by smart people influenced by the rationalist ideas of the Enlightenment. So the religious nuts are kept at bay - at least when it comes to our system of public education.

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