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Based on your religion, would you support genetic engineering or not? Why?

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  • Based on your religion, would you support genetic engineering or not? Why?

    As we all know, lately genetic engineering makes very fast progress. With the current technology, it is getting easier for scientist to try new sequence and it's effect. We also mapped about 90% of human genome already. With CRISPR, it is possible to alter a targeted DNA.

    Couple of years ago, scientist in China succeed in fixing a human embryo with thalassaemia, although the rate of success is very small (CMIIW), but we already on our way to direct human evolution through our technology rather than leave it to nature. There are many illness that is caused by gene mutation in embryos, inherited faulty gene, auto immune disease, etc, that could be fixed by genetic engineering.

    Not to mention about making human, smarter, stronger, faster, etc. Just by fixing faulty genes that cause illness will make human's quality of life much better in the future.

    Some scientist even think about how to alter adult human being's gene, which is harder than altering an embryo's gene, but it's possible. We aren't there yet, but we're walking toward that direction.

    So what do you think about it?
    Last edited by Han1977; 01-02-2018, 04:33 AM.

  • #2
    Considering the history of eugenics and the people who have promoted it in the past, it is a bad idea.

    A very bad idea.

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    • #3
      But what if we could cure many disease through genetic engineering. Many bacterial infection is harder to deal with, since we use too much antibiotics. Maybe we could tweak our immune system instead and free from worries. Or how about children who are born with genetic defects, shouldn't we fix their gene before they're born, so they don't have to live in pain, sickness, etc.

      And maybe you can explain more about the bad history of eugenics. What makes it bad and maybe we can discuss, whether current genetic engineering is similar to the past eugenics, or perhaps it is different, since now we know much more compare to the past.

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      • #4
        Considering the history of humankind it is possible to postpone the implementation of new technologies but never for long.
        We don't need even to think much about it if it is good or bad, we need to concentrate on how to implement rules so that this technology is not too badly abused.
        In dir muß brennen, was du in anderen entzünden willst. What you wish to kindle in others must burn within yourself. [Aurelius]

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Han1977 View Post
          Or how about children who are born with genetic defects, shouldn't we fix their gene before they're born, so they don't have to live in pain, sickness, etc.
          yes - that would be great. I have seen how the whole family suffers when one child is longterm disabled. It is not only the child itself who suffers.

          In dir muß brennen, was du in anderen entzünden willst. What you wish to kindle in others must burn within yourself. [Aurelius]

          Comment


          • #6
            I happen to totally agree with you Suna. First, I also think that it's impossible to stop it. Began with Mendell, the dice already rolled. I might even say, since Mendell started it, it's already "predestined" that we will reach what we reach today. Even if say some country state a law that make certain procedure in genetic engineering illegal, there will be other country who won't. The one who refuse to follow will be left behind and lose in the competition. No one would want to risk it. So whether they like it or not, they (the government/country) will be forced to work on genetic engineering, hence the technology and knowledge in genetic engineering will develop even further, until it reach where we could genetically engineer human being.

            I put this topic in Religion because I often heard some religious people disagree with genetic engineering to all living being especially human, based on reason that God created us and nature the way they are. It's not something to play around with.

            But it bring further question to me, if God create us this way, then does it means God created auto immune disease, thallasaemia, etc? We could put the blame on people for some illness, maybe it happen because you have a bad habit, smoking, bad diet, or maybe you have unsafe sex, etc. But some disease/illness, it just happen and the one who suffer (children, babies) haven't done anything that cause it happen. Are we saying God does that?

            Srry if made grammar mistakes, English isn't my 1st language

            ADD:: I also try to reflect on why I support genetic engineering. I try to think and maybe, it's because I have rheumatoid arthritis. Genetic engineering, gene therapy, etc, give some hope that maybe it could be cured. Even if it's expensive in the beginning, along with the technology development, it's going to be more affordable that I might get benefit from it.

            In the other hand, I became less enthusiast in the technology when I think about how it could change the way we live, because let's get real. When new tech come along, the one who will get the benefit first, if the rich one, the famous 1%. In the case of genetic engineering, it could totally change how the world run. Just like Yuval's Homo Deus.

            So maybe people don't like it because they feel threatened by it.
            Last edited by Han1977; 01-02-2018, 08:29 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Han1977 View Post
              The one who refuse to follow will be left behind and lose in the competition. No one would want to risk it.
              unfortunately some countries do. Germany for example does. We have very restrictive laws for the use of embryonal stem cells, what led to the problem that now where other technologies (non-embryonal stem cells) are available and were developed by countries with less restrictive laws......Germany is far behind.

              It is necessary to lead the ethical discussion, but it must be reasonable (and keep the religious nutjobs out)

              Originally posted by Han1977 View Post
              I also try to reflect on why I support genetic engineering. I try to think and maybe, it's because I have rheumatoid arthritis. Genetic engineering, gene therapy, etc, give some hope that maybe it could be cured. Even if it's expensive in the beginning, along with the technology development, it's going to be more affordable that I might get benefit from it..
              I know what you mean, we have that desease in our family as well. Fortunately not in the worst clinical presentation. I'm crossing my fingers for you.

              Originally posted by Han1977 View Post
              because let's get real. When new tech come along, the one who will get the benefit first, if the rich one, the famous 1%.
              I don't see it that way. There will be countries where it is like this and other countries where it is not like this. I think in my country it won't be like this.

              Originally posted by Han1977 View Post
              In the case of genetic engineering, it could totally change how the world run. Just like Yuval's Homo Deus. So maybe people don't like it because they feel threatened by it.
              yes - people are always afraid of new technologies.....with right most of the time . Until you know the bad sides and know how to control it, it is always risky.
              Last edited by Suna123; 01-02-2018, 09:17 AM.
              In dir muß brennen, was du in anderen entzünden willst. What you wish to kindle in others must burn within yourself. [Aurelius]

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Suna123 View Post
                unfortunately some countries do. Germany for example does. We have very restrictive laws for the use of embryonal stem cells, what led to the problem that now where other technologies (non-embryonal stem cells) are available and were developed by countries with less restrictive laws......Germany is far behind.
                Hi, how is German? (I visit your profile). Yes, I read about the law in German when I read the articles about how in US some company sell a Gene Engineering DIY kit. It seems interesting to do your own experiment at home. *who knows you might accidentally give yourself spidey genes j/k. In the same article it is also written that in some country such thing would be illegal, ie : German. I don't think it is illegal in my country, the funny thing it isn't because we're so open minded or daring, but rather because (I think) our government haven't thought about such possibility yet. So they haven't prepare any law about it.

                It is necessary to lead the ethical discussion, but it must be reasonable (and keep the religious nutjobs out) ... yes - people are always afraid of new technologies.....with right most of the time . Until you know the bad sides and know how to control it, it is always risky.
                ^_^, and yes, we should be a little bit afraid, for a good reason too. Sometimes when I watch scientists talking about their experiment (in youtube), they're so enthusiast and passionate, so much that they seem don't notice the possibility of people misusing their invention.

                I know what you mean, we have that desease in our family as well. Fortunately not in the worst clinical presentation. I'm crossing my fingers for you.
                Thanks, my RA is in remission most of the time. I just have to make sure to watch my diet and not put too much burden in my joints. It sucks though, because from time to time it hit without much warning. Especially now as I'm getting old, lol.

                It is exciting to read about our progress in science and technology. Some tech I'm waiting to see is : nanobots, gene therapy, Mars colonization and a virtual reality the way we see in Matrix. I never understand why the architect must force human to enter Matrix. I would pay to enter Matrix if he set it with Final Fantasy (or warcraft) world theme, of course don't kill anyone when they died in the matrix, just let them roll another character.

                In fact, a technology like Matrix would be great for nature, we won't be busy exploiting earth, killing whales, dolphin, etc. We'll be busy hunting for chocobo.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It can be a good leap of mankind if used in regulation.

                  But, I am really confused how is a gene related to this forum section? See, I can alternatively say that there is no life in our body, its only the genes inside the cells of our body that matters. The same phenomenon of mutation might happen inside an atom of an metamorphic rock inside earth. Or the shifting of an element into another might happen naturally too. From this perspective, a human and a rock has not much difference. There is no life in both. You can tweak its process of formation of both in any ways. Now from this perspective, if you say that a human has a life, you have to consider a rock has a life too.

                  Each cell in our body does the same function of what the whole body do. We might even call a cell as a human and we as an universe. Even from this perspective even the disease can be called a life and our body as dead.

                  I agree that the word 'god' makes a dead end to the limit of our thoughts. But we can always unlearn and relearn the same old concepts.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Han1977 View Post
                    But what if we could cure many disease through genetic engineering. Many bacterial infection is harder to deal with, since we use too much antibiotics. Maybe we could tweak our immune system instead and free from worries. Or how about children who are born with genetic defects, shouldn't we fix their gene...bla, bla, bla-bla-bla...
                    Pious dreams! What you’re describing has little to do with eugenics. What would likely happen if one group of humans became smarter, faster and in better health than the vast majority through genetic engineering, is domination of the weak by the strong. It would be just what we have now, only much better...much better for the superior race.

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                    • #11
                      Eugenics has its benefits and its inconvenient, too much eugenics could bring the specigenies to have no diversity anymore. What if, tomorrow, an illness appears and kill every non-diabetic people ? If eugenics eradicated diabetes, we could just say bye bye to the humanity.

                      Of course, I won't even talk about people who would be above the other because of eugenics, or how the world could turn in something clother to Brave New World" than nowaday, lol
                      Last edited by Sancta_Lux; 01-02-2018, 04:08 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Human beings have been "artificially selecting" and hence genetically engineering almost since human-like primates came on the scene.

                        It's already been happening for millions of years - religion or no religion.

                        For that matter, even susceptibility towards being religious is something that has been almost certainly "artificially selected".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          RogerCarmel

                          By the way, you're the one who bring up eugenic, not me. I asked what do you think about genetic engineering and then you said, that based on the history of eugenics it's not a good thing.

                          Which is then I talk about curing disease through genetic engineering, it's also part of genetic engineering. In fact, I think most scientist who work in genetic engineering is more interested in curing disease rather than making a super race (I might be wrong of course).


                          Sancta_Lux
                          ,
                          Don't you think living in mad max world would be exciting, lol?


                          Originally posted by aussieinbg View Post
                          Human beings have been "artificially selecting" and hence genetically engineering almost since human-like primates came on the scene.

                          It's already been happening for millions of years - religion or no religion.

                          For that matter, even susceptibility towards being religious is something that has been almost certainly "artificially selected".
                          But before this we still could say that the way we "genetically engineering" ourselves through the procedures provide by nature or God. With genetic engineering is just on another level of "artificially selecting". I prefer saying we designing not just selecting. Through designing you can have a combination that's not exist before hand.
                          Last edited by Han1977; 01-03-2018, 01:21 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Han1977 View Post
                            RogerCarmel

                            By the way, you're the one who bring up eugenic, not me. I asked what do you think about genetic engineering and then you said, that based on the history of eugenics it's not a good thing.

                            Which is then I talk about curing disease through genetic engineering, it's also part of genetic engineering, I think most scientist who work in genetic engineering is more interested in curing disease rather than making a super race (I might be wrong of course.)
                            YOU are the one who brought up eugenics in your very first post when you said quite clearly,

                            Not to mention about making human, smarter, stronger, faster etc. Just by fixing faulty genes that cause illness will make human’s quality of life much better in the future.
                            That’s exactly what eugenics is. Making us better, stronger, faster through genetic engineering. NOT through better nutrition, education and health! Through engineering! Scroll up and read what you wrote.

                            Listen, I have no objection whatsoever...as long as I’m part of the master race...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Han1977 View Post
                              But before this we still could say that the way we "genetically engineering" ourselves through the procedures provide by nature or God.
                              God doesn't exist except in adult and children fairytales. So we're going to have to run through what happens naturally both microscopically and macroscopically. They are not "procedures" - they are governed by physical laws such as in chemistry and physics.

                              Not all genetic engineering involves modern molecular physics manipulating DNA at the base pair level btw...

                              Originally posted by Han1977 View Post
                              With genetic engineering is just on another level of "artificially selecting". I prefer saying we designing not just selecting. Through designing you can have a combination that's not exist before hand.
                              "designing"... engineering is "designing" - a form of selection. That "selection" is implemented. All of what engineering is about...

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