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  • Patafix
    started a topic Scientology... and cult fascination

    Scientology... and cult fascination

    Although most of the world knows about the amount of BS the Church of Scientology is based upon, and it's likely to have only thousands instead of millions of parishioners, I've always been fascinated with all that came from Scientology (and most obscure cults in general). A few interesting reads and the documentary series Scientology and the Aftermath showed things were even worse than what I believed were happening.

    Maybe you have read or heard about stories from ex-scientologists or other cults ? What did you think of it ?
    Do you have a similar interest in those subjects ? Some people find me a bit twisted but I always said millions of people hooked on violent crime stories - real or fictional - aren't any less twisted, right ?

    Feel free to share any book or documents to feed my weird fetish for those cults




  • look4swissmiss
    replied
    Originally posted by Etsia View Post
    I can say I share the similar interest as the OP. I'm also interested in cults and what actually stands behind them. I think it is possible to find interesting documentaries online about the sects and if I find anything worth seeing I'll share.
    >>edited<<
    People must steer clear from all those sects and cults because such things not only don't help but also harm people's lives even more.
    For Scientology, L Ron Hubbard had steady income as a Sci-fi author and started Scientology with money to waste. Students still come to study at his UK home-turned-bible-college at 'Saint Hill' thanks to his generous legacy. But they're preaching to the converted. Before then, I knew the psychological pressure I experienced was intense (previously having been brain-washed by my Buddhist femme fatale) and I knew when to walk away (from them).
    Last edited by look4swissmiss; 01-22-2018, 03:24 PM.

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  • RogerCarmel
    replied
    Originally posted by Etsia View Post

    I was shocked when I opened the door and there were 2 Iranians and one more Lithuanian Bahai who was married to a person from some far away and exotic place...I acted polite of course but I expected to see just two elderly people coming to my place to say goodbye. People in our town used to call that Bahai Santa Claus as he was fat and had a very funny grey beard. I feared about my kid then - he was just 5 at that time but always wanted to communicate with people. I was polite but rather cold when they pushed their ideas as if unintentionally onto me. I refused the trip to Israel and refused to believe there was no one who could speak English in a group among Lithuanian Bahais, they simply wanted to bribe me with a free trip knowing that travelling had always been my passion. As I said, they know what they're doing. They also saw how dear my kid was to me and always praised him, tried to talk to him, etc...that is they tried to influence me after drawing a psychological portrait of mine. I guess they got back to the States as they did not manage to gather a decent number of followers. haha but I like remembering those times, it was an interesting experience! I'm glad I've acted in accordance with common sense too.
    I've only met one Bahai and that was a long time ago. I was young, single, and she was very pretty. Looking back, I'm happy she was a complete fruitcake because I may have been sucked in by her beauty. (Men are so shallow sometimes!) Yes...she was crazy beautiful but also quite crazy.

    Speaking of crazy, I have more experience with a group called Ekankar. Ekankar calls itself "The religion of Sound and Light" and their god is a man called Howard Klemp. That's not a joke: god's name is Howard Klemp and he's from Wisconsin, USA.

    Howard Klemp, bless us all!

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  • Etsia
    replied
    Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

    Oh, thanks for reminding me about the Bahai. I had forgotten about them. That's a cult similar to Raël's cult except that they believe in a form of god (Raëlism is atheist).

    Bahai originated as a sect of Islam in Iran, so it isn't surprising that there were Iranian Bahai wanting to meet you against your will. You bring up a good point too: cults are always pushy.

    I'm glad you didn't go on that free trip to Israel with those weirdos.

    I was shocked when I opened the door and there were 2 Iranians and one more Lithuanian Bahai who was married to a person from some far away and exotic place...I acted polite of course but I expected to see just two elderly people coming to my place to say goodbye. People in our town used to call that Bahai Santa Claus as he was fat and had a very funny grey beard. I feared about my kid then - he was just 5 at that time but always wanted to communicate with people. I was polite but rather cold when they pushed their ideas as if unintentionally onto me. I refused the trip to Israel and refused to believe there was no one who could speak English in a group among Lithuanian Bahais, they simply wanted to bribe me with a free trip knowing that travelling had always been my passion. As I said, they know what they're doing. They also saw how dear my kid was to me and always praised him, tried to talk to him, etc...that is they tried to influence me after drawing a psychological portrait of mine. I guess they got back to the States as they did not manage to gather a decent number of followers. haha but I like remembering those times, it was an interesting experience! I'm glad I've acted in accordance with common sense too.

    Leave a comment:


  • RogerCarmel
    replied
    Originally posted by Etsia View Post
    ...More than a decade ago I had weird neighbours - an American couple who were Bahai...
    Oh, thanks for reminding me about the Bahai. I had forgotten about them. That's a cult similar to Raël's cult except that they believe in a form of god (Raëlism is atheist).

    Bahai originated as a sect of Islam in Iran, so it isn't surprising that there were Iranian Bahai wanting to meet you against your will. You bring up a good point too: cults are always pushy.

    I'm glad you didn't go on that free trip to Israel with those weirdos.


    Leave a comment:


  • Etsia
    replied
    I can say I share the similar interest as the OP. I'm also interested in cults and what actually stands behind them. I think it is possible to find interesting documentaries online about the sects and if I find anything worth seeing I'll share.

    I've always tried to figure out why people belong to certain cults and the conclusions I've come to are - cult leaders look for gain, be it money, sexual abuse, even a fun to kill and show any for of power. More than a decade ago I had weird neighbours - an American couple who were Bahai. They were elderly people and as I spoke English they started communicating with me. I at once told them not to brainwash me into their belief and can say that they were not pushy. They were interesting people to me. It's because I've never entered their cult I guess and it's because we just communicated as ordinary friendly neighbors. I cannot say there were no attempts to drag me into their activities - they asked me to go to Israel with them for free, as an interpreter. I believe cult members are very good at human psychology and they knew about my passion towards travelling...Well, I thought a free cheese is only in a mousetrap and refused their offer. They finally left for the USA. When they came to say goodbye they brought other Bahai to my home some of whom were from Iran. The bad thing about it was they did not even ask me if I wanted to see those people at my place....

    In general I didn't feel any harm done only a good practice as far as English was concerned and some interesting communication. I've always stayed away from their belief. I believe cults work under one scheme - their leaders look for vulnerable people who might need some support at one time or another in life and they find people's soft spots and use them in order to make them become the members of really dangerous cults taking all the money, possessions and will of a person away.

    Decades ago there was a cult here in Lithuania called 'Tikejimo zodis' the word of belief would be the translation and this sect was finally banned due not only to stories of people forced to give all they had away to the sect leaders but also some deaths like forced suicides or even homicides were reported. My friend once visited their meeting - she remained disgusted by the hysterical atmosphere and nonsense. I've never gone there though was interested. Just as the OP says people do have some curiosity towards weird things.

    People must steer clear from all those sects and cults because such things not only don't help but also harm people's lives even more.



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  • look4swissmiss
    replied
    Originally posted by Han1977 View Post

    Uhm... but... wouldn't that means that Christianity an aberrant form of a faith (Judaism) is a cult. Islam as an aberrant form of faith (Christianity) is a cult.

    We could also say that Buddhism is an aberrant form of Hinduism.
    Buddhism is a way-of-life, not a religion. Could never get my head around why she wanted me to lie inside a coffin to unveil me for a fresh start. If Buddhism was a religion she'd have wanted to nail down the lid and incinerate me. 30+ years later, I'm still waiting to find that out!

    Turning to Hinduism, Historically, a British Colonial (Lord Balfour?) was once heard to ask why 200,000 million people believed in Gods 30 feet high who lived for 32,000 years?

    Previously I knew a girl who planned to marry a Mormon from Utah. She invited me to her total immersion baptism. What colour undies should she wear, she asked? [cont'd on page 94
    Last edited by look4swissmiss; 01-20-2018, 08:01 PM.

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  • dmitri11
    replied
    Originally posted by Han1977 View Post
    ... to be every where these days.
    ... to be every where these big money.

    Leave a comment:


  • Han1977
    replied
    Well, about some people, etc. In my opinion everyone have their own brain and they're entitled of using it to make their own opinions. If you can't read something and make up your own opinion about it, then if it isn't me, then there will be lots of people out there who will mess with their mind.

    Someone who might actually want to mess with their head and taking advantage out of it.

    In fact I think, these people are doomed to be used/taken advantage by tons of con man who seems to be every where these days.

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  • RogerCarmel
    replied
    Originally posted by Han1977 View Post

    1. An aberrant form of faith. -> Christianity an aberrant form of Judaism. Islam an aberrant form of Christianity.

    2. Gravitate around a charismatic personality -> Jesus, Mohammed

    3. Or attractive idea -> eternal life, 72 virgins and an after life orgy

    4. An element of craziness when seen from the outside. -> heh... do I need to make the top 10 ten list?



    I hope you realize about what I've been doing. Okay, my apology, I'm one of the most productive lame joke writer in the world.
    Your point #1 is false, as is #2. OK...you’re joking. But some flunkie is likely to take you seriously!

    Now do the exercise with a cult. Try an easy one...

    Leave a comment:


  • Han1977
    replied
    Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

    Essentially, a cult is a group of people that gravitate around a charismatic personality or an attractive idea. There is usually an element of craziness when seen from the outside. There is always a religious aspect although there may or may not be a deity associated with the cult. Once a cult becomes mainstream (Mormonism, for example) it ceases to be considered a cult by the general population.
    1. An aberrant form of faith. -> Christianity an aberrant form of Judaism. Islam an aberrant form of Christianity. <checked>

    2. Gravitate around a charismatic personality -> Jesus, Mohammed <checked>

    3. Or attractive idea -> eternal life, 72 virgins and an after life orgy <checked>

    4. An element of craziness when seen from the outside. -> heh... do I need to make the top 10 ten list? <checked>

    I suggest you look up the dictionary definition of «*cult*» .

    I hope you realize about what I've been doing. Okay, my apology, I'm one of the most productive lame joke writer in the world.

    Leave a comment:


  • RogerCarmel
    replied
    Originally posted by Han1977 View Post

    Uhm... but... wouldn't that means that Christianity an aberrant form of a faith (Judaism) is a cult. Islam as an aberrant form of faith (Christianity) is a cult.

    We could also say that Buddhism is an aberrant form of Hinduism.
    No, and for a variety of reasons none of which has anything to do with this discussion.

    The concept of the cult is fairly recent, being barely 200 years old (and I’m being generous!)

    In the case of aberrant Christianity, these religions are considered cults only by those who know what defines Christianity. The average guy on the street thinks the Witnesses, Christian Scientists and Mormons are forms of Christianity, as do the members themselves of these religions.

    Essentially, a cult is a group of people that gravitate around a charismatic personality or an attractive idea. There is usually an element of craziness when seen from the outside. There is always a religious aspect although there may or may not be a deity associated with the cult. Once a cult becomes mainstream (Mormonism, for example) it ceases to be considered a cult by the general population.

    I suggest you look up the dictionary definition of «*cult*» .

    Leave a comment:


  • dmitri11
    replied
    In the picture there is only the gate, but no fence.

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  • Han1977
    replied
    Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post


    No. You are confusing a cult with the cult.

    A cult is an aberrant form of a faith or a spurious religion. The OP gave the example of Scientology, and I gave the example of Raëlism. These are both cults, as are Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism. In the case of Scientology and Raëlism, these are spurious religions within atheism. Other atheistic religions are not considered cults, such as Taoism, Buddhism, Jainism and so on. In the case of Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism, these are cults because they are counterfeit Christianity, or an aberrant form of Christianity.

    There are also aberrant forms of Islam. Black Islam is the most notable example.

    The cult is the institutionalized form of worship within a religion. In other words, the acts of worship a particular religion recognizes as acceptable towards its deity or beliefs (if the religion is atheist.)

    Now you know.

    Uhm... but... wouldn't that means that Christianity an aberrant form of a faith (Judaism) is a cult. Islam as an aberrant form of faith (Christianity) is a cult.

    We could also say that Buddhism is an aberrant form of Hinduism.

    Leave a comment:


  • look4swissmiss
    replied
    Scientology? Years ago, I discovered Hubbard had exploited psychology of the day (mid 1950's). But that kind of thinking can be provocative because it's 'white coat and clip board' lacks rigor and never moved forward from that point.

    Consequently modern-day journalists who studied social psychology can find Scientology quite absurd and want to challenge their creed/tenets.

    In this videoclip, a renowned TV documentary maker (Mr Sweeney) engages in a laughable shouting match with a Scientologist (enjoy!)

    See TV journalist 'lose it' at 10:09
    Last edited by look4swissmiss; 01-17-2018, 04:28 PM.

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