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  • #16
    Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

    Celibacy for RC priests may play some role in the inordinate amount of gays and pedophiles in their ranks but I’m not sure it’s really a significant factor in RC Church’s historical abuses. Inquisitions, pogroms, political machinations, spiritual and secular fraud, imprisonment and execution of scientists, etc., none of these can be explained away by institutional celibacy. Rather, they are the hallmarks of an organization drunk on power.
    Witch hunts went on among protestant communities for longer, as did persecution of scientists(remember Turing) reformation was largely a pogrom in of itself(Sweden, England, Norway parts of Germany).

    Inquisition was largely guided by political entities rather than Vatican especially the ones in Spain.

    Not that I am fond of catholic church except for its basis in tradition rather than biblical sophistry as it is with the western offshots- which is frankly way more insane. I just find it that some people seem blissfully unaware of the political situation which brought about most of these things.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by grgur View Post

      Witch hunts went on among protestant communities for longer, as did persecution of scientists(remember Turing) reformation was largely a pogrom in of itself(Sweden, England, Norway parts of Germany).

      Inquisition was largely guided by political entities rather than Vatican especially the ones in Spain.

      Not that I am fond of catholic church except for its basis in tradition rather than biblical sophistry as it is with the western offshots- which is frankly way more insane. I just find it that some people seem blissfully unaware of the political situation which brought about most of these things.
      Do you mean Turing the codebreaker ?..And basic computer science ?..I always thought he was persecuted by his co workers for being a homo sexual which was at that time illegal...
      When Henry 8th declared himself head of the Anglican church homo sexuality was already law passed during Englands catholic period so either way he was persecuted by Christianity...
      Inquisition AKA the Spanish inquisition was entirely Spanish with all the proceeds becoming property of the monarchy,the rest of the inquisition was the Vatican...
      Could you give some general dates for that political situation...

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      • #18
        I think he's right, and even if he's wrong about the connexion to sodomite "priests", he's right about the fact that there's a serious problem of moral decay and filth in modern society.

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        • #19
          @ Elishar, I meant on case by case basis(England being a special "case" here) but I largely refer to the 30 years war. The reformation was in fact successful largely due to the interest plenty of political players had in breaking Habsburg grip on Europe(and often pillaging church property). One could agree that's Martin Luther's critigue of the indulgencies was valid but he didn't seem to care much for christ's teaching when he sided against the peasants and with the aristocracy.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Elishar View Post

            The popes seem so incredibly arrogant that they just DON"T understand,,,the top catholic kisses their feet,,they are not thinking of jesus they are saying here is proof that islam is paramount..Today the pope voluntarily kisses their feet,,,tomorrow they will force him to do it...
            KNOW thine enemy...
            Vatican and the pope are a part of this bizarro clown world where hypocrisy is more valuable than self-respect and credibility.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by grgur View Post

              Witch hunts went on among protestant communities for longer, as did persecution of scientists(remember Turing) reformation was largely a pogrom in of itself(Sweden, England, Norway parts of Germany).

              Inquisition was largely guided by political entities rather than Vatican especially the ones in Spain.

              Not that I am fond of catholic church except for its basis in tradition rather than biblical sophistry as it is with the western offshots- which is frankly way more insane. I just find it that some people seem blissfully unaware of the political situation which brought about most of these things.
              Just to be clear, I’m no friend of institutional religions. I’m not hitting on the Romish Church because I’m some sort of Protestant zealot as you seem to be assuming. Any governing entity invested with overarching power will tend to abuse it’s followers. This is true for many religions (including atheist religions such as Scientology) and for political ideologies as well. The antidote to this type of abuse? There is none.

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              • #22
                Given Herr Ex-Pope's line of reasoning, then it logically follows that all the sexual revolution of the 1960s, the collapse of moral theology and reverence for God (and the Eucharist) following the Second Vatican Council (1962-65), as well as the rampant presence of homosexuality in seminaries in the early years following the council all came about because peadophilia and homosexuality were all rampant in seminaries before 1960...

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

                  Just to be clear, I’m no friend of institutional religions. I’m not hitting on the Romish Church because I’m some sort of Protestant zealot as you seem to be assuming. Any governing entity invested with overarching power will tend to abuse it’s followers. This is true for many religions (including atheist religions such as Scientology) and for political ideologies as well. The antidote to this type of abuse? There is none.
                  Atheist's haven't got a "religion" clumsy idiot and that includes any half-witted immortal belief scams like scientology, don't judge Athiest's by the weird standards and rules you made your "followers" adhere to when you led your suspicious canadian Athiest cult before god sent you direct messages in your dreams hoping that tall tale would give you a lighter prison sentence TDLCVI Stick to the Fun and Jokes forum where you make slightly less of a fool of yourself than you do here



                  LOL

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DrSchadenfreude View Post

                    Atheist's haven't got a "religion" clumsy idiot and that includes any half-witted immortal belief scams like scientology, don't judge Athiest's by the weird standards and rules you made your "followers" adhere to when you led your suspicious canadian Athiest cult before god sent you direct messages in your dreams hoping that tall tale would give you a lighter prison sentence TDLCVI Stick to the Fun and Jokes forum where you make slightly less of a fool of yourself than you do here



                    LOL
                    There is a difference between saying that atheists (as a class) have a religion, and that there are atheistic religions (i.e., religions which do not assert the existence of any deities). The latter claim should be uncontroversial. The former needs to be argued on the individual case rather than with respect to a class.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bsgsbkht View Post
                      There is a difference between saying that atheists (as a class) have a religion, and that there are atheistic religions (i.e., religions which do not assert the existence of any deities). The latter claim should be uncontroversial. The former needs to be argued on the individual case rather than with respect to a class.
                      Are you drunk

                      Atheism is a NON belief system and that includes not conforming to scam religions like scientology and therein the absence of a deity, so former or latter there is nothing uncontroversial about it at all, however feel free to show me an actual religion that is adhered to by Atheists, perhaps you can also show who and where they worship....well.....nothing? and which "class" they are



                      LOL

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by grgur View Post
                        @ Elishar, I meant on case by case basis(England being a special "case" here) but I largely refer to the 30 years war. The reformation was in fact successful largely due to the interest plenty of political players had in breaking Habsburg grip on Europe(and often pillaging church property). One could agree that's Martin Luther's critigue of the indulgencies was valid but he didn't seem to care much for christ's teaching when he sided against the peasants and with the aristocracy.
                        OK I get you,,understood…
                        Martin luther seems to have been more concerned with breaking the power of rome so he sided with the aristocrats because that was where the clout and the money were,more chance of success...

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by grgur View Post

                          Spoken like a true protestant heretic.

                          But yeah one may blame sexual revolution for a lot of nonsense but not for the actions of priests definitely, it's the typical story of abuse people who belong to a seperate group that has power and influence within a society and takes care of its "honour" in a mafia like fashion.
                          "honour" mafia,,,Two PROMINENT " families " come to mind >>>Sforza and Orsini , skullduggery galore..

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by DrSchadenfreude View Post

                            Are you drunk

                            Atheism is a NON belief system and that includes not conforming to scam religions like scientology and therein the absence of a deity, so former or latter there is nothing uncontroversial about it at all, however feel free to show me an actual religion that is adhered to by Atheists, perhaps you can also show who and where they worship....well.....nothing? and which "class" they are



                            LOL
                            Atheism is the state of not believing in God or gods. It has no attached necessary system of beliefs and is therefore compatible with any system of beliefs that does not necessarily include belief in God or gods, and this includes some religions, as well as a variety of things that aren't religions per se but in their essential characteristics very much resemble religions. On top of this we might note that religion involves practise and not just belief; I'm absolutely sure that there are atheists who engage in the practise of Christianity, though whether or not you would consider such people to be genuinely religious (because their atheism is incompatible with a Christian belief in God) is another matter.

                            You have misunderstood the word "class". Make sure your English is up to snuff before playing with scare quotes.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DrSchadenfreude View Post

                              Atheist's haven't got a "religion" clumsy idiot and that includes any half-witted immortal belief scams like scientology, don't judge Athiest's by the weird standards and rules you made your "followers" adhere to when you led your suspicious canadian Athiest cult before god sent you direct messages in your dreams hoping that tall tale would give you a lighter prison sentence TDLCVI Stick to the Fun and Jokes forum where you make slightly less of a fool of yourself than you do here


                              I disagree, they have got :
                              Some forms of feminism
                              Money (with is also the god of some religious, funnily)

                              There are others, but those are pretty expolicit. I guess they are "atheists" rather than atheists thou.
                              Last edited by Sancta_Lux; 04-15-2019, 11:30 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sancta_Lux View Post

                                I disagree, they have got :
                                Some forms of feminism
                                Money (with is also the god of some religious, funnily)

                                There are others, but those are pretty expolicit. I guess they are "atheists" rather than atheists thou.
                                Absolutely none of that made any sense.

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