Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Controversial Questions

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Zirelelil View Post
    Evolution is most reliable theory for now. If someone come up with something better I'll change my opinion.
    There are actually more than 2 options but the current paradigm favours evolution. The evolution paradigm is considered "fact" at the moment, just as the previous paradigm was considered "fact" for a few millenia in most of the West. Neither has - or had - any proof for what their authorities claimed. Actually, the only proof advanced for all these paradigms is scholarly authority.

    Sorry...but there is light at the end of your dark tunnel because you claim that if something better comes along, you'll change your mind. I doubt it though but the sentiment is noble.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
      There are actually more than 2 options but the current paradigm favours evolution. The evolution paradigm is considered "fact" at the moment, just as the previous paradigm was considered "fact" for a few millenia in most of the West. Neither has - or had - any proof for what their authorities claimed. Actually, the only proof advanced for all these paradigms is scholarly authority.
      There are some weird theories like panspermia or some conspiracy junk. But they all are lame. There's a big difference between evolution and the previous paradigm. That was just religious dogma. But the evolution has some reliable basis, proofs, researches. So scientists mostly work with it for now.
      Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
      Sorry...but there is light at the end of your dark tunnel because you claim that if something better comes along, you'll change your mind. I doubt it though but the sentiment is noble.
      Oh, and which theory such an enlightened person like yourself adhere to?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Zirelelil View Post
        There are some weird theories like panspermia or some conspiracy junk. But they all are lame. There's a big difference between evolution and the previous paradigm. That was just religious dogma. But the evolution has some reliable basis, proofs, researches. So scientists mostly work with it for now.

        Oh, and which theory such an enlightened person like yourself adhere to?
        The point of my intervention here was to show you that faith is necessary to believe in evolution, just as much as faith is necessary to believe in whatever other paradigm one chooses. None of these "theories" has one microgram of evidence to support it. All they rely on is the word of their holy men, be they gurus, priests or scientists.


        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
          The point of my intervention here was to show you that faith is necessary to believe in evolution, just as much as faith is necessary to believe in whatever other paradigm one chooses. None of these "theories" has one microgram of evidence to support it. All they rely on is the word of their holy men, be they gurus, priests or scientists.
          I have no faith and scientific theories aren't based on faith, they actually have more than one microgram of evidence. Concerning "the word of holy men", most of scientists the Darwin's contemporaries didn't accept his theory. For example that Jenkin's article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swamping_argument but it was disproved by Mendel's discovery concerning the law of independent assortment.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by ChiQ View Post
            Should creationism and evolution be treated with the same importance when taught in schools?

            Most current abortion legislation allows abortion up to 24 weeks, do you feel this is a reasonable timescale?

            Should welfare be restricted only to those who have paid into the system?

            Tighter controls on immigration will lead to labour shortages, do you agree or disagree?

            Does giving the general populace easy access to firearms make a society safer or more prone to violence?

            Are obesity and alcoholism diseases?
            Creationism should be taught exclusively in religion-related classes, and should by no means be regarded as scientifically correct. Evolution is much more important for obvious reasons, but of course, religious people will consider me opinionated because I'm an atheist just as I consider them for being religious, so this is basically an argument where two disagreeing people can slap each other for eternity.

            24 weeks sounds reasonable enough.

            Hard to answer the third question from the perspective of a Croat. Many here say "they'd be stealing our jobs". Percentage of unemployed people was 17,5% last time I heard about it, and a lot of people aren't much educated. However there's a ton of job offers for low wage that simply no one wants to take, seasonal fruit picking, construction working jobs, etc. So we already have labour shortages in a way, because people don't want to work crappy jobs even though they have no diplomas for better ones. I think we could use some immigrants here, but I'm afraid those immigrants wouldn't have a beautiful life in a close-minded country like Croatia.

            I don't personally think civilians should own weapons for any reason, it's not middle ages anymore, it's police's job to offer protection. Of course, it's a problem when the police doesn't care either.

            Obesity and alcoholism aren't diseases, they are addictions. I know discussions about these are around for a long time now, but imho you don't have a choice about getting a disease, and you can't say that a person who took that one burger too much, glass of alcohol too much, or a smoke didn't have one.

            Comment


            • #51
              Should creationism and evolution be treated with the same importance when taught in schools?
              Of course not. Creationism is a religious belief and as such should only be taught in church.


              Most current abortion legislation allows abortion up to 24 weeks, do you feel this is a reasonable timescale?
              Yes, if there is a risk for the mother. Otherwise 14 weeks seem more reasonable to me.


              Should welfare be restricted only to those who have paid into the system?
              What would be the point then? We either include everyone or we have no system at all.


              Tighter controls on immigration will lead to labour shortages, do you agree or disagree?
              I fully agree.


              Does giving the general populace easy access to firearms make a society safer or more prone to violence?
              More prone to violence, but I don't think it's the access itself. I mean, a society that feels like it needs an easy access to firearms is a society prone to violence per se, otherwise it wouldn't even think about it.


              Are obesity and alcoholism diseases?
              They are. Aditictions are diseases. Starting is generally a free choice, but once you're there you can't control it. The same way you can chose whether you have unprotected sexual intercourse with someone and the morning after learn you now have an STD.



              Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post
              Since Darwinian evolution has never been observed, it cannot properly be called a theory. "Evolution" on fruit flies and the varieties of dog breeds do not constitute macro (Darwinian) evolution. A dog never evolves into anything else but a dog; a fruit fly never evolves into something else either.. Adaptation to environment isn't evolution.
              Adaptation to the environment isn't Evolution, it's its driving force, but can definitely observe Darwinian evolution. What we can't observe for obvious reasons is the long-term outcome or predict it. But it's the same for the big Geological events and we do not doubt they will take place. You give examples of "race" selection so of course they are no proof of Evolution, they are only proof of the existing genetic varibility within a given population. So I suggest we talk about American Tragopogon flowers or African Anopheles mosquitoes instead, both examples of real speciation.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by sweet_tears View Post
                [B]
                Adaptation to the environment isn't Evolution, it's its driving force, but can definitely observe Darwinian evolution. What we can't observe for obvious reasons is the long-term outcome or predict it. But it's the same for the big Geological events and we do not doubt they will take place. You give examples of "race" selection so of course they are no proof of Evolution, they are only proof of the existing genetic varibility within a given population. So I suggest we talk about American Tragopogon flowers or African Anopheles mosquitoes instead, both examples of real speciation.
                Nope. It's obvious to me from your answer to the question, "Are obesity and alcoholism diseases?" that you confuse a disease with an addiction. Is smoking a disease or an addiction? And your unprotected sex/STD analogy doesn't apply here because it is a cause/effect relationship. The cause being an infected person, the effect being the STD.
                I rest my case.

                If you conform to the current faith around diseases and addictions, it's normal that you would conform to the current faith around evolution.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by RogerCarmel View Post

                  Nope. It's obvious to me from your answer to the question, "Are obesity and alcoholism diseases?" that you confuse a disease with an addiction. Is smoking a disease or an addiction? And your unprotected sex/STD analogy doesn't apply here because it is a cause/effect relationship. The cause being an infected person, the effect being the STD.
                  I rest my case.

                  If you conform to the current faith around diseases and addictions, it's normal that you would conform to the current faith around evolution.
                  Oh, my bad, I'm sorry. I thought you were someone trying to hold a serious debate on a controversial matter. I don't feed trolls, it win't happen again

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by sweet_tears View Post

                    Oh, my bad, I'm sorry. I thought you were someone trying to hold a serious debate on a controversial matter. I don't feed trolls, it win't happen again
                    Calling people "trolls" is silly! That seems to be a common cop out around here.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Should creationism and evolution be treated with the same importance when taught in schools?

                      No, however it should be thought as part of religion as to get an understanding of different views which is important.

                      Most current abortion legislation allows abortion up to 24 weeks, do you feel this is a reasonable timescale?

                      In sweden you are allowed to have an abortion up to week 18 and after that you need to have permission from the social services but one can only have an abortion even with their "help" up to week 22 because in after week 22 the baby can survive outside of the womb and is thus its own being.

                      With that in mind I'm all for it, there is as many reasons to have an abortion as there is women who abort and I dont think I need to give examples of those. Every woman should have the right to decide over her own body and arguments such as "well she should have used protection" is not good enough. Everyone knows that contraceptives isnt 100% proof. There are women who uses different kinds of protection but still get pregnant.

                      Should welfare be restricted only to those who have paid into the system?

                      No.

                      Tighter controls on immigration will lead to labour shortages, do you agree or disagree?

                      Yes, industrialized country mostly rely on immigration to get enought workers for their factories, restaurants and other service jobs amongst many other.

                      Does giving the general populace easy access to firearms make a society safer or more prone to violence?

                      More prone to violence; however I dont believe it to be only the access to firearms that make s country more prone to violence. I belive its the attitude towards it as well, the easy access is ofc a big piece of the pussel but not the only factor. I mean even if we use the Stanford prison experiment as an example, There they mainly look on the power of authority but it still works with the idea of violence in different social groups together with different cultural situations whiteout weapons.

                      Are obesity and alcoholism diseases?

                      Obesity and alkoholism is a disease but at the same time its mostly not the sole problem. A lot of people with these different addiction problems have an underlying problem, it can be symptoms of other mental or physical problem.


                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Should creationism and evolution be treated with the same importance when taught in schools?
                        In Christian countries, evolution and creationism should both be offered as school curriculum.

                        Most current abortion legislation allows abortion up to 24 weeks, do you feel this is a reasonable timescale?
                        Once the fetus can feel pain, an act of killing it is immoral and murderous.

                        Should welfare be restricted only to those who have paid into the system?
                        Yes.

                        Tighter controls on immigration will lead to labour shortages, do you agree or disagree?
                        Strong disagree. See automatization and AI.

                        Does giving the general populace easy access to firearms make a society safer or more prone to violence?
                        Depends on the acts of individuals. But one or thousands individual(s) acting wrongly shouldn't warrant for your personal rights to be taken away.

                        Are obesity and alcoholism diseases?
                        No. There are genetic preconditions, but in the end. you have free will to act as you choose.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Smokeday View Post
                          In Christian countries, evolution and creationism should both be offered as school curriculum.
                          That would be a support of religious barbarism in those countries. They'd better try to become secular and atheistic.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Anastasia837 View Post
                            That would be a support of religious barbarism in those countries. They'd better try to become secular and atheistic.
                            Yeah, I don't think so. First of all, Christianity is anything but barbaric and has only brought progress to western civilization. The fact that we have freedom of speech, modern mathematics, or ironically enough, universities, is all thanks to Christianity and Judeo-Christian values. There is nothing more barbarous than a country which lives in a state of Atheism, as Stalin and Mao demonstrated to us with their mountain of 80 million secular corpses.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Smokeday View Post
                              Yeah, I don't think so. First of all, Christianity is anything but barbaric and has only brought progress to western civilization. The fact that we have freedom of speech, modern mathematics, or ironically enough, universities, is all thanks to Christianity and Judeo-Christian values. There is nothing more barbarous than a country which lives in a state of Atheism, as Stalin and Mao demonstrated to us with their mountain of 80 million secular corpses.
                              I kinda can't grasp whether you're kidding or serious... Christianity brought biggest stagnation to the western civilization actually (middle ages). As for commies, they removed religion but didn't remove religious thinking. (communism is basically christianity-based ideology just with proletariat instead of god and communism instead of afterlife/paradise)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Smokeday View Post
                                Yeah, I don't think so. First of all, Christianity is anything but barbaric and has only brought progress to western civilization. The fact that we have freedom of speech, modern mathematics, or ironically enough, universities, is all thanks to Christianity and Judeo-Christian values. There is nothing more barbarous than a country which lives in a state of Atheism, as Stalin and Mao demonstrated to us with their mountain of 80 million secular corpses.
                                Why not 100 million?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X